What do you do...

First of all I want to praise God for this site. I just finished reading the article called "Men and Porn" listed found on the resources page under articles and Guardian.co.uk. I found this article extremely helpful.

As for this blog, I can say that both parties did the right thing here. The boss that kicked you out of the office and you, owning up to your bad behavior and not holding a resentment in the end.

Like the scripture says, judgement outside the body of Christ is in God's hands. We are to show love completely, just as God has shown us His love.

Inside the church we are to have the same kind of love. Kicking somebody out of the church or office, and handing him over to Satan (like the bible says) is a tough love, but is no less loving. We are not completely excluding them from the body of Christ forever, but hoping (in prayer) that they will come to their senses and repent (turning from sin). Thanks for the topic. Blessings, Jason, Atlanta

Great question Steve.

I guess I look at the sin in those people's lives, as well as yours and mine, as just that, sin. Is one sin any worse than another? I'm not a Bible scholar, but I think that our totally just God would see sin as sin no matter what the offense.

Matthew 22:36-40 tells us that Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to "Love": God & each other.

I understand that you accept the consequences for your actions and that you do not blame your previous employer or church for kicking you out the door. However, where was the "Love" in those actions?

I'm not sure how I would handle someone coming to me in those situations. I hope that I would treat them in a way that would be encouraging, understanding and accepting without showing approval. In my own situations I have opened myself up to people and received those things and was very appreciative that no one ever said, "oh, that's OK. It's no big deal. Everyone looks at porn once in a while." One little hint of approval would have caused my ordeal to drag on and on.

Anyway, again, great question Steve. I look forward to seeing others respond.

@ Steve. Again, thanks for the response and the blog. It is necessary to talk about these tough subjects we deal with. There is a good message online about this subject (obviously others deal with this issue as well). Here is a link:

http://resources.northpoint.org/store/shop.do?cID=10&pID=1483

It is called JUDGMENT CALL.
Here are the key scriptures from this message:

Matt. 7:1-5, 18:12-17; Luke 6:35-36, 23:34-39; 1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13

I'm like you though, I'd rather not judge ever. But we must consider the whole truth.

I also like what you said earlier: "Who is left on the inside of that church?" There wouldn't be many left, I agree. I must turn from sin constantly, and submit my life to Christ the best I can. Sometimes people remind me of this (in love) and I am greatful. God is love regardless though. Thanks for the blog. I love you all. Jason, Atlanta

Howdy,
I've been busy, and in my business I have lost track of what I am fighting. My friends that I used to rely on for accountability are not in a place to "hold me accountable". I need to find true accountability. I have been struggling with thoughts that are impure about my girlfriend. We are looking forward to getting married, but because of our less than honorable time together, we have opened our hearts to impurity, and my thoughts to corruption. I know that accountability will help, it always has. I know I do not belong to the enemy, but I have given too much of my time to making him proud. I desire to honor God. I am choosing to move forward by His grace, but know that I cannot go it alone. Thank God for people to help hold us up.
Sean

Very familiar with this type of discussion as I have a gay sister. She chose to get "married" in North America to her partner as there is no such thing in our country. The fact she is gay doesn't stop her from being my sister and there is nothing to be gained by disowning her.

In countries like the US, even with the moral liberalisation of various laws, military forces still have the old charges on their books on the grounds that adultery etc are bad for discipline and people charged with these offences can be expelled. Perhaps each institution needs to decide whether its reputation is at stake for a policy. A church may need to discipline someone in leadership who is dishonouring the reputation of the church. However it would be, in my opinion, wrong to expel someone from church membership because the church is supposed to be there for people who have problems in their lives.

Just a clarification of one or two points raised. A church could still have a policy that restricts what a member can be a part of. I think our church says for example they will not allow drunk people to attend services.

Hi guys was reading my bible & in galatians6 v 1 it states that if a man is overtaken in a fault we who are spirtual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness conderering yourself lest we be tempted.My thoughts are so many christians turn away from sexual sins cause they dont what 2 get involed ?

Hey Steve-

Long time follower of X3, recent regular reader of your blog, first time poster.

I'm currently a missionary in Berlin, Germany, but just before I left the states my home church had an unfortunate scandal. Our worship leader had an affair...I'm writing this because I was generally impressed by the way that church body handled it. The pastor made a point of speaking to the congregation about the reality of sin, the depth of our depravity, and the truth of God's Grace in our lives. He wanted to make sure that everybody in attendance that morning (guests and members, believers and non-believers alike) understood that this is the reality of Sin, but that a group of people that are really following Jesus will confront these sorts of things head-on, while doing their best to seek the Lord in prayer and figure out what His Word says. The reality is that Sin comes with consequences in this life, sure...but God sees us as pure, white as snow, right?

Anyways, the worship leader was removed from leadership, but was offered the Love of Christ and forgiveness by the staff and members of the church. There's no reason to forcibly remove them from the church...does God remove us from His flock when we sin? If so, we'd all be in a lot of trouble. I think that's probably best in a situation like this...scripture says that those of us called to lead are held to a higher standard, and are responsible for helping each member of the Body grow in their Walk with the Lord. I can't understand how the love of God can coincide with kicking individuals caught up in sin out of the Body...unless they are fully aware of what they are doing and have no desire to stop (I think this is what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians). As you mentioned, how can we show the Love of Christ if we ourselves are choosing to become the judge?

Thanks so much for being a part of this ministry, being willing to ask tough questions and run after our Lord. God bless ya.

Steve,

I like "The Message" version.
9-13 I wrote you in my earlier letter that you shouldn't make yourselves at home among the sexually promiscuous. I didn't mean that you should have nothing at all to do with outsiders of that sort. Or with crooks, whether blue or white-collar. Or with spiritual phonies, for that matter. You'd have to leave the world entirely to do that! But I am saying that you shouldn't act as if everything is just fine when a friend who claims to be a Christian is promiscuous or crooked, is flip with God or rude to friends, gets drunk or becomes greedy and predatory. You can't just go along with this, treating it as acceptable behavior. I'm not responsible for what the outsiders do, but don't we have some responsibility for those within our community of believers? God decides on the outsiders, but we need to decide when our brothers and sisters are out of line and, if necessary, clean house.

I beleive the intent of this passage is not to disown or judge someone that is "sexualy imoral" (aren't we all in one way or another Matthew 5:28) but as it states in verse 11 "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat." If the church member does not see the wrong in what they are doing than it is an issue. If someone comes to you with a repentant heart with the desire to change then you must love him (Luke 10:27 'Love your neighbor as yourself.')

ok so I don't exactly agree with Jason, the first comment, but I do agree with Bryce.
the church should by NO means throw someone out of the church. ever. even if you did some bad stuff in the past and the church called you on it, they by Jesus' example should never cast someone out of the church (for that might push someone away from the church forever). the church is supposed to give hope and not push away. instead of casting you out of the congregation completely, they should have followed Bryce's example and talked about it openly. i do think that taking the music minister out of leadership is a good idea, but it is not Christlike to not offer love to someone who is struggling or confused.
PLEASE read Bryce's post.
Fighting with Jesus,
-Royen

well I totally love what bryson said. I would have to say though that if they kicked you out of the church, they might as well kicked themselves out too, for all have sinned right? Now of course thats to an extent; if someone doesn't want to stop then it's a different story. I think the church sometimes gets so wrapped up in "holiness", if you will, of themselves that they stray from real love.

God is love and love is God. Gods love us unconditional, so shouldn't our love be the same way? If we do not love like God loved us then we do not know the real love of God and we have become selfish. I think so many times the reason why this happens is because in our human mind we picture our good works earning Gods love when; where in the church our good works earn us the holy belt. So, by the human mind, if we mess up were no longer holy and we haven't earned Gods love...how ignorant is that? Gods love isn't measured nor is it categorized for certain people, Gods love is for every single person that walks this earth. The church sometimes misses the reality of Grace and it's unmarritive favor (don't know if thats the right word). The church then says " well he doesn't deserve grace"...THATS WHAT GRACE IS! We don't deserve it. If he doesnt deserve it then neither do you!

Now this doesn't give anyone the right to sin and use the greasy grace. No, I'm talking about real grace.

Here's a shocker, Jesus supposedly ate with these people...and the bible clearly tells us we shouldn't. If we're suppose to follow Jesus...we should eat and hang out and love these people...but the bible says not to. So either the bible is inaccurate, which discredits the whole rest of the thing, or who ever wrote the book (because God DID NOT pen it himself, he dictated it supposedly) needed to check his facts twice becuause CLEARLY Jesus shouldn't have spent time with these people and if he did, it was wrong in God's eyes, and Jesus couldn't have been wrong or else he wasn't Jesus.

Great question! I think about the same thing a lot actually. I lead a bible study at my college and am also a professional dancer (so there are always a lot of dancers that come to the study)... thus homosexuality is always an issue whether someone feels offended by a scripture or wonders how their orientation relates to the word.

What I try to explain is this... the scripture is the final authority on my life but it is important to take the scripture in context. We cannot just read A scripture and be okay with what that ONE says... we have to get the whole story, read ALL of the text.

In saying that what I try to explain to the guests at the study, myself with my own struggles, and my family (being pastors and "big dogs" in the church) we cannot discriminate people because they are sinners because then everyone would be by themselves (perfect for satan). If I was to look at a homosexual with judgmental eyes because I am not myself and say that he is unfit to be apart of the bible study or a guest with me to church it would be giving power to that sin. What makes homosexuality SOOOO wrong that we have to excuse him from our group. The church is the place that he/she should feel most comfortable because they will not be judged. Though homosexuality is specific, it is still a sin... just like mine, to excuse that person from the group would be to say that my sin "honors" God more than your sin so you need to leave... WOW.

Do not be confused, I am not justifying the sin, but saying I too am a sinner and am in no position to judge another's sins because I cannot relate to their specifics. When we kick people out of the church or family we are giving power to their specifics and saying because we cannot relate, we are better and you do not belong...

we are the body of Christ, and it is only the body as a whole that can heal infections... it is only when the body becomes infected by the once small infection that we should "amputate" that part in order to save the body.

It seems to me like this scripture is referring to someone who is unrepentant, not someone who is seeking redemption and healing in Christ. Someone who is still willfully sinning with no intention of change, yet professing to be a Christian. "Shall we then sin that grace might abound? May it never be!" Of course the passage doesn't explicitly say that, so I guess it's just my 2 cents.

Hi everyone. I am new to this site. I am sick and tired off falling when it comes to pornography, I think this site will really make a differance. I look forward to getting to know you all.

@Ricky

you should look at the motive Jesus had when eating with these ppl. His intentions were not to become like them and be part of them. His intention was to show them a better way and bring love & peace to them. When the Bible says to not eat with these people, it is talking about being part of them in what they do. Obviously the motive is different than Jesus'. I think when someone eats with non-believers, one should look at the motive. Are you trying to show them a better way of living OR are you trying to be like them

Steve,
I would agree that sin is sin. But what Paul is addressing in 1 Cor. 5, IMHO, is someone who is unrepentant, unwilling to deal with their sin. This person thinks that they can have their cake (adultery) and eat it too (be in fellowship with believers)...they are deceived.

If someone truly sees the severity of their sin, its impact on not only their own life, but the lives of those around them, then we should accept them in our fellowship...just as Jesus did the woman caught in adultery.

My 2 cents...

Where would we all be if someone who knew God didn't associate with us? The answer... still living in the sin that binds us all that God so willingly died to pull us out of.

Have we as Christians lost sight of the meaning of what it truly means to be a Christian?
Isn't the great commission, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel..."?

If we shun those who have sinned we give them reason to be bitter and resentful toward Christianity and in essence toward Christ himself.

My best friend recently admitted to me that he is gay. I am ashamed to say that I am the ONLY one of his so called Christian friends who stuck by him and continued to love him as my best friend. He told me that it meant alot to him that I would still consider him a friend and still talk to him about the love of God. Friends, that is sad. If we are truly an example of Christ's love shouldn't we love unconditionally? Now I must say that my friend knows that I don't agree with his lifestyle and he also knows that I don't condemn him. I love him for who I know God made him to be whether or not he truly lives up to the potential that God placed in him is not my responsibility. It is however my responsibility as a Christian to continue showing him that there is hope for his life in Jesus Christ.

The point I am essentially trying to make is this. If someone is in sin, don't they NEED the church? If the church turns them away then where do they have to go but back to their sin? If everyone who is a Christian, that carry the good news, walks away from the sinner where will they hear the good news? They definitely won't hear it from the world or their partners in the sin. God commanded us to spread the gospel and the most noticeable way to do this is to love others. Does this mean roll over and not take a stand against anything? ABSOLUTELY NOT! However like I previously stated, my friend knows that even though I don't agree with his actions... in fact I can't stand the knowledge of his lifestyle, I still love HIM. And THAT is what touches his life. Who does he call when things are going wrong? Who does he turn to when he needs advice? Where is his safe place to get the TRUTH without condemnation? You guessed it.... he calls me. Am I perfect? By no means. I think that is why it is easier for me to understand that he is struggling in his life and needs a friend. When the scribes and Pharisees brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus in John chapter 8 they stated that the law required her death and asked Jesus in a test what He thought about it... Do you remember His reply? Verse 7 says "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first" (NKJV) Can any of us, even the best pastor we know, truly say that we are completely without sin? In Gods eyes aren't all sins sin? Aren't sins equal? Not to us as humans, we tend to categorize and give ratings to sins but in God's eyes isn't a person who has committed a sin of any kind still a sinner?

One final story to wrap up my book (sorry about that) This story is found in Luke Chapter 5 beginning in verse 29 we find these words... "And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them. But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Lets be the doctor to the sick...
I challenge you all, Go against the flow... Too many people are quick to judge but not so quick to forgive. Where would we be if Jesus judged before He forgave? Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;" Let us not forget where we came from and let us remember that it was a Christian with the good news that came to where we were and shared with us the love of Jesus Christ.

God help us all to remember to love those in need and pray for their souls instead of pushing them further and further from the truth that we all so desperately need!

God bless you all
Love in Christ
Anthony Kelley

I am far worse than you are, I had sexual affair with my churchmate who happened to be of same sex.. It's hard..I can't forgive myself