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THE PEOPLE OF PORN
Today is the 20th of April, 2007. It's a beautiful Friday afternoon, which I'm spending in an airplane flying to Fort Wayne, Indiana. Tomorrow is “Porn and Pancakes” again. I love these events. I take them very seriously. In my opinion, events such as these could very well change churches for the better. I believe in these events. I thank God the Pastors of XXXChurch decided to launch their ministry. I truly believe it will change the world.
Porn is such a huge struggle for men. Christian men are no exception. In fact, from personal experience I think it's safe to say that pornography affects Christian men to an even greater extent than those outside the church. Why do I say that? Because almost every Christian male who struggles with this issue has some sort of belief that he must hide his weakness. That he won't be looked at the same if he admits his problem. That he'll lose his position in the church. That his wife will not understand. The list goes on and on.
The key, I think, to overcoming this problem is to talk about it. To be real about it. To be educated about it. To remove the mystery of it.
Today I want to write a little about my former colleagues in the business. Like any industry, there are good people and bad people. Perhaps I'm optimistic about the nature of people, but I firmly believe most people are good at heart. Or at least wish to be good. The world of pornography is no different. If you, my constant readers, have been under the impression that people in adult entertainment have to be slimy or of low personal integrity, think again. That's simply not the case. Do such people exist in the business? Of course. But that's true of any marketplace.
Regardless of how they now feel about me, I really like most of the people I worked with in the business. J & R, a couple I once considered amongst my closest friends, are normal everyday people. They run a successful adult business from their home office. They have a teenager that they're doing their very best to raise, and they live in a nice neighborhood. They are strong supporters of their local University's sports teams and love having a good time. They work their asses off. Am I allowed to use that word here? If not, I'm doing so anyway. It's simply the best way to describe their work ethic.
J & R's monthly income from their adult business is more than the majority of the population makes in a year, yet the last time we spoke in detail one of them also held another professional “non adult” job. There was always a bit of concern about what might happen if co-workers were to find out the true nature of their “home based” business, as it had always been presented as “internet marketing” or “internet consulting” to those who asked. It's technically true: they use a network of “free” sites to feed traffic to subscription based porn sites. Most of said “pay” sites belong to other companies, who pay them a nice percentage of the money that results from the sales generated by their traffic. That's definitely internet marketing. J & R also own a successful “mature” program (in the world of porn, “mature” refers to women over age 30). Belinda and I were not only friends, we were also content providers for J & R. We'd recruit mature models for them and produce content to their specifications.
On a personal level, we'd communicate almost daily. We'd chat about the business. About affiliates (people who send traffic and “market” sites). About kids. I was always flattered when they'd ask my advice on how to handle a parenting issue. I talked them into buying their daughter a Mac. We'd meet at least once a year and a few times they'd fly out to stay at our house for a week or so. J once stayed a month just to get away for awhile. They introduced Belinda and me to Indian food. For that alone, I'm forever grateful (it's SO good).
J & R are very good people. We don't talk anymore. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but after the last adult industry convention, where they spent a few days with Belinda and her new boyfriend, they will no longer speak to me. That bums me out. I miss being able to say hello to them or to Razz them about using those inferior PCs.
A fellow photographer from Portland is a person I still consider to be a very good friend. He goes by the name Aaron Matthews. He's very talented. Like I did, Aaron produces content for several companies, the most recognizable include Hustler and Penthouse. He makes a very good living and travels the world. He loves his job. Aaron has a strong personality, but is one of the most tender hearted people I've met in my life. If you tell him I said so he'll laugh and try to deny it, but it's true. Aaron allows himself to be vulnerable to his friends. He opens himself up and gives access to those he cares about, which makes him easy to wound if his heart isn't treated right. He has little patience for ignorance. In reality, Aaron is the only person from the adult industry that has not turned on me since I've become a Christian. Not long after surrendering my life to God, Aaron took me to his parents' house. I'm pretty sure he expected his father to talk me out of Christianity.
One of my clients, who operated amateur websites and made millions of dollars per year, is amongst the most well educated individuals I've met. He and his wife enjoy a great life together with their young daughter. He has other kids from a previous marriage. He used to own and operate a business in the automotive industry. He's a very smart man and very proud of his heritage.
I could go on and on about people such as these. What is my point? My point, dear readers, is that most of the people who produce porn and/or own porn companies are normal, everyday people like you and me. They live quiet lives. They laugh and love. The have good families. They treat their business like any other business owner. It's a job. It's a profession. It's a career. These people are not scary ogres. Are there exceptions? Of course. But as I said before, the same can be said about any line of business.
And despite what many Christians might think, pornographers won't be legislated out of business. They're too smart to just sit back and allow such things to happen. Besides, legislation will NEVER change the hearts of anyone. I can't tell you how much it bothers me to hear the ramblings of groups such as the Family Research Council, which seem to think we can pass laws to improve “morality” in our country. That's just not the case. God himself gave us the choice to make our own decisions. Which of us is above God?
I have a dream that someday the church will get off its butt and stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of their pews. It's time to get out and talk to people where they live. It's time to stop judging and start loving. It's time to start changing HEARTS instead of telling people what to do.
-------
It's now Saturday and I'm sitting in the airport at Ford Wayne, Indiana, waiting for my plane to board for Chicago. From there I'll transfer to another flight and ultimately land in Sacramento this evening.
This morning at Porn and Pancakes Katie Couric sent her team to film the event for an upcoming story on the CBS Evening News. If things go as the last event, where Anderson Cooper (from CNN) sent his team, any footage of me will be cut from the final story. A local Indianapolis station also showed up. Prior to the event they asked me to speak with them on camera for a few minutes. One of the things I hope they air is that I am NOT “anti porn industry”. I firmly believe in our rights as citizens of the USA. I do not want to take away freedoms from anyone, nor do I want to demonize those involved in porn. I simply want to tell people all sides of the porn story and let them make their own decisions. I want individuals to take accountability for their actions. I want men and women who “only look at the free sites” to realize that they're just as responsible as anyone else for the lives that are broken and shattered by pornography. And yes, lives are indeed broken and shattered by porn. Not ALL lives, perhaps, but more than I'm willing to ignore. In the years I spent in the business I've watched many girls' lives changed for the negative after working for me.
I want all consumers to be educated and able to make an informed decision.
I believe the Jesus I read about in the Bible, the man who loved everyone, provides a way of healing the broken hearted. That includes those who work in porn and those who consume it.
What can you do to “combat” porn? Love people and show them the way to God. Trust Him to do the rest. He doesn't need YOU doing his job by telling others how to conduct themselves.
And remember: there is nothing anyone could ever do to make God love them any less. This includes pornographers, and it includes you.
AaronM wrote on April 21st 07 at 02:58PM
This Aaron Matthews cat sounds like a good friend. Maybe you should invite him to one of your Porn and Pancake events. :)
Dan wrote on April 21st 07 at 05:30PM
I love seeing the Church become kinder in its approach to sinners. we ALL are broken. We ALL need the Savior.
Tina wrote on April 21st 07 at 06:01PM
Donny, thank you for humanizing them. I'm one of the ones who thought that those involved were either sleezy or drug addicts. To hear that they view it as "just a job" or a regular career is surprising.
I'm sorry that J&R have been keeping their distance. From previous posts I know they were good friends.
I'm sorry that J&R have been keeping their distance. From previous posts I know they were good friends.
AaronM wrote on April 21st 07 at 06:45PM
Hey Tina.......It doesn't seem very Christian like for you to stereo type people like that.
How many sleazy drug addicts do you know who earn more than you each year?
Your former beliefs are nothing short of ignorance.
How many sleazy drug addicts do you know who earn more than you each year?
Your former beliefs are nothing short of ignorance.
Amanda wrote on April 21st 07 at 11:41PM
Thanks for not sugarcoating anything. Thanks for cutting through the crap and getting to the heart of the matter. Thanks for making all humans matter.
jen wrote on April 22nd 07 at 01:32AM
nice post...definitely worth the wait! thanks d :)
AaronM wrote on April 22nd 07 at 12:32PM
I've got more to add.....
I have a friend who used to be a stripper. We met because I love to shoot pool and the bar she works at is the closest bar to my home.
This girl and I became fairly close friends and as such, I would watch who she associated with while she was working.
There was an older gentleman named Jerry who became one of her regular clients. Jerry seemed like a pretty cool guy. I've bought him drinks and shot a few games of pool with him over the years.
My friend ended up in a bit of a financial bind and Jerry stepped forward to help her out. He wrote her a check to cover the balance of her bills.
Now, this might seem like a nice thing to do but the fact is, Jerry did not write this check from his own checking account not did he sign the name Jerry to the check.
Turns out that Jerry's real name is Luther Sturdvant and he was writing the checks...month after month....out of the church's petty cash fund that he, as the church's minister, had access to.
Jerry paid her bills including' the full amount of her rent' for at least 6 months using church funds. "Jerry" also offered her drugs and alcohol.
Although he never directly propositioned her, he would make comments like "I wonder if you would sleep with me if I was a younger man." He would also grab her ass from time to time.
To this day, his church does not know of his activities and the money he stole from them.
I have seen "Jerry" type people my entire life. I have a cousin who is also a minister and the last time I was at his house and he started going off on me in front of the family, I went into his garage, found his stash of porn mags...where my other cousin told me they were...and presented them to him in front of his family.
What's my point? Donny is dead nuts on about Christians hiding their porn. Some of them even do it at the cost of others.
I have a friend who used to be a stripper. We met because I love to shoot pool and the bar she works at is the closest bar to my home.
This girl and I became fairly close friends and as such, I would watch who she associated with while she was working.
There was an older gentleman named Jerry who became one of her regular clients. Jerry seemed like a pretty cool guy. I've bought him drinks and shot a few games of pool with him over the years.
My friend ended up in a bit of a financial bind and Jerry stepped forward to help her out. He wrote her a check to cover the balance of her bills.
Now, this might seem like a nice thing to do but the fact is, Jerry did not write this check from his own checking account not did he sign the name Jerry to the check.
Turns out that Jerry's real name is Luther Sturdvant and he was writing the checks...month after month....out of the church's petty cash fund that he, as the church's minister, had access to.
Jerry paid her bills including' the full amount of her rent' for at least 6 months using church funds. "Jerry" also offered her drugs and alcohol.
Although he never directly propositioned her, he would make comments like "I wonder if you would sleep with me if I was a younger man." He would also grab her ass from time to time.
To this day, his church does not know of his activities and the money he stole from them.
I have seen "Jerry" type people my entire life. I have a cousin who is also a minister and the last time I was at his house and he started going off on me in front of the family, I went into his garage, found his stash of porn mags...where my other cousin told me they were...and presented them to him in front of his family.
What's my point? Donny is dead nuts on about Christians hiding their porn. Some of them even do it at the cost of others.
Jeff wrote on April 22nd 07 at 02:21PM
Love ya Donny! Love what God is doing in your life and your perspective! God has worke dme over and made me new and he has done the same for you! Keep on keepin on man!
God Bless
Jeff
God Bless
Jeff
Josh wrote on April 22nd 07 at 10:38PM
"I have a dream that someday the church will get off its butt and stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of their pews. It’s time to get out and talk to people where they live. It’s time to stop judging and start loving. It’s time to start changing HEARTS instead of telling people what to do."
I love this. People need to get our of the freakin pew and start doing something about what they're talking about.
And Aaron, thanks for being a good friend to Donny regardless of his leaving the porn industry. You rock dude.
I love this. People need to get our of the freakin pew and start doing something about what they're talking about.
And Aaron, thanks for being a good friend to Donny regardless of his leaving the porn industry. You rock dude.
KenniB wrote on April 22nd 07 at 11:39PM
Donny~
I really appreciate your writings and the light you shed on this issue. Keep it up!
To AaronM.....I doubt Tina needed you to remind her of how ignorant and closed-minded her beliefs were, but thanks for confirming my suspicions that it isn't just Christians you can throw someone's past back in their face.
I really appreciate your writings and the light you shed on this issue. Keep it up!
To AaronM.....I doubt Tina needed you to remind her of how ignorant and closed-minded her beliefs were, but thanks for confirming my suspicions that it isn't just Christians you can throw someone's past back in their face.
Scott C wrote on April 23rd 07 at 01:02AM
What you said about trying to legislate morality - I wholeheartedly agree. It won't change anything. Real and permanent change only comes when Jesus enters the heart of the individual. Our responsibility as Christians is not to overthrow government and replace it with some theocracy or monarchy, but rather to be Jesus's hands and feet here on earth. You can't legislate that. God is the solution.
Sean wrote on April 23rd 07 at 11:08PM
That was such a great article to read. And the posts too, I agree with every single one of them! Following God's simple command of "Go!" is the easier said than done sometimes but certainly produces the hope of God. Thanks Donny and everyone who posted. Peace
Patricia Hein wrote on April 24th 07 at 03:35AM
I agree with what you are saying . . .to a point . . . aren't christian supposed to look at things from a spiritual perspective . . . not a human one. I think we have to be careful, humanizing everthing is what gets us into trouble. We are to see everyone and everything through God's eyes - not humanize it all so it looks good to us and be acceptable.
Lyndon W wrote on April 24th 07 at 05:09AM
Yo Donny thanks for the post it was really hit home, i see it differently now. I have a dream that someday the church will get off its butt and stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of their pews. It’s time to get out and talk to people where they live. It’s time to stop judging and start loving. It’s time to start changing HEARTS instead of telling people what to do."
this statement brought a tear to my eye because it is so true. just one thing how em i to reach out in love to people in this area of life when i'm struggling with it myself. its turned into my own dirty little secrit
this statement brought a tear to my eye because it is so true. just one thing how em i to reach out in love to people in this area of life when i'm struggling with it myself. its turned into my own dirty little secrit
Lyndon W wrote on April 24th 07 at 05:12AM
Yo Donny thanks for the post it was real
"I have a dream that someday the church will get off its butt and stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of their pews. It’s time to get out and talk to people where they live. It’s time to stop judging and start loving. It’s time to start changing HEARTS instead of telling people what to do."
this statement brought a tear to my eye because it is so true. just one thing how do i reach out in love to people in this area of life when i'm struggling with it myself. its turned into my own dirty little secrit.
"I have a dream that someday the church will get off its butt and stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of their pews. It’s time to get out and talk to people where they live. It’s time to stop judging and start loving. It’s time to start changing HEARTS instead of telling people what to do."
this statement brought a tear to my eye because it is so true. just one thing how do i reach out in love to people in this area of life when i'm struggling with it myself. its turned into my own dirty little secrit.
Patricia Hein wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:22AM
One more thought on all this . . . Here is a angle you could come from . . .instead of all of us having to "humanize" them and see them as "real" "hardworking" "normal" people . . .why don't you show more of the other side, show them what effects "their job" has on others on society. Oh that's right . . .they already know and don't give a rats @#$ because they are in it for the money . . .just like most people in their "jobs". I beleive in rights, in our freedoms . .. but when someone elses freedoms and rights are crapping on me and my world . . . I should not have to put up with it, accept it and just right it off as a "job". I can love them with the Love of Christ and not be crapped all over in the process. They know what the "industry" does and they don't care because "everyone has a right to do what they want".
SteveO wrote on April 24th 07 at 07:13AM
Donny, I hear what you're saying about freedom to choose, and rights as citizens, and I agree. I love the freedoms our country provides for us. But as a youth worker, I counsel with 8th grade boys who are already addicted to porn, and I wish it wasn't so easy for them to get hooked. Is there anything that can be done to restrict access to teenagers. (legislation or industry self-regulation, credit card access even for free sites, etc.)?
retroman wrote on April 24th 07 at 07:59AM
1. I appreciate the main point of this article, which is to get us to love people and not demonize porn producers.
2. I disagree with the railing against the few groups that are taking a stand against porn, such as Family Research Council. I'm not afraid to defend them on this thread, even though people think they are prudes.
Pornography is not "free speech" and is not protected by the first amendment. However most people do not pressure their representatives to punish indecency that is already illegal. I'm not talking about the nudes in the art museum, I am talking about porn.
3. I'm sure these people who produce this material are nice people. However this stuff is wrecking people's lives - wives, husbands, daughters, families.
4. Let's stay balanced with my points #2 and 3 with point #1 - being the "friend of sinners" like Jesus.
2. I disagree with the railing against the few groups that are taking a stand against porn, such as Family Research Council. I'm not afraid to defend them on this thread, even though people think they are prudes.
Pornography is not "free speech" and is not protected by the first amendment. However most people do not pressure their representatives to punish indecency that is already illegal. I'm not talking about the nudes in the art museum, I am talking about porn.
3. I'm sure these people who produce this material are nice people. However this stuff is wrecking people's lives - wives, husbands, daughters, families.
4. Let's stay balanced with my points #2 and 3 with point #1 - being the "friend of sinners" like Jesus.
Aaron L wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:36AM
Great Post! I think a lot of Christians are starting to come around to this good, Christ-like thinking. For so long the "church" shut out those who needed it the most. A great example of a good, Christ-like thinking church is Lifechurch.tv. They not only talk the talk...Lifechurch Walks the Talk.
Tommy wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:46AM
Thanks Donny for sharing from your heart. It's obvious and I was blessed. Thanks for reminding us that God's love is far reaching and endless.
TJ wrote on April 24th 07 at 11:44AM
Love the sinner, hate the sin. I agree with that. I also agree with the fact that legislation does not change hearts. However, legislation is a part of our society and we should remember that God was the first to introduce it. The first law he laid down was the one that changed the world when Adam and Eve broke it. Our government is us - "for the people by the people." As Christians, we have a responsibility to do our part in steering our nation in the right direction. What we DO NOT DO is just as important as what we DO. Christianity is not a lifestyle, it is an identity. We are Christ followers and that identity should guide all areas of our life. Christian Legislators should not leave their Christian values at the front door, nor should Christian voters. Laws are meant to protect people, sometimes even from themselves. Pornography is destroying millions of lives, why not legislate against it? It's not hearts that we would be trying to change through laws, it is lives we'd be trying to protect. I agree that the Church needs to get out into society and start loving people like Jesus does. But that is part of the problem, we as the Church have let ourselves get pushed out of public areas. Separation of Church and State was not meant to protect the State. Somehow we've forgotten that and the Church continues to let itself get legislated against. Jesus did not come for those who were well, he came for those who were sick. The world wants to quarantine the Church and seal us into our buildings. They think we'd be happier there anyway and that is because we have given them that idea through our hypocrisy. Donny, the most important thing you said was that we need to stop talking about “winning the lost for Christ” from the safety of our pews. It’s time to get out and talk to people where they live. It’s time to stop judging and start loving. It’s time to start changing HEARTS. That sums up the Great Command as well as the Great Commission.
Jonathan Miles wrote on April 24th 07 at 12:04PM
Great insight from Donny, and to see his friend Aaron M. join in the comments.
Aaron names a retired pastor from his area (with a minor misspelling) possibly caught in sexual and financial sin. Would it be better to delete his name from the comments, AND make a point of sending some brothers to speak with the man personally?
Aaron names a retired pastor from his area (with a minor misspelling) possibly caught in sexual and financial sin. Would it be better to delete his name from the comments, AND make a point of sending some brothers to speak with the man personally?
unojojo wrote on April 24th 07 at 12:15PM
Thanks retroman. I'm with you on your 4 points. The account of Jesus' life showed us very clearly that He loved the sinner more than He hated the sin. But the sinners He loved the most were those with a desire to put there hearts right. He forgave the woman who was "caught in the act of adultery" and saved her life...but He railed on the moral leaders of the day, the Pharisees. These Pharisees He spoke out against were those who did what they did for the praise of others, i.e. to be looked highly upon by others for their "righteousness". He spoke out against these moral leaders because they were doing it for the wrong reasons and leading people in the wrong direction.
People like J&R can be great people from the worlds eyes (and I wouldn't mind hanging out with them like I do anyone else), but because their hearts allow them be okay with hurting so many people by what they do - encourage internet pornography - they are like the Pharisees, enjoying money as opposed to popularity, and those acts should be discouraged.
Now, maybe J&R don't have any idea how much people are hurt and how much negative impact their business has on people. If that's the case, then it's a different story.
All this to say: man looks at the outer apperance and God looks at the heart (1 Samuel 16:7). Christians are to be like God and look at the heart.
People like J&R can be great people from the worlds eyes (and I wouldn't mind hanging out with them like I do anyone else), but because their hearts allow them be okay with hurting so many people by what they do - encourage internet pornography - they are like the Pharisees, enjoying money as opposed to popularity, and those acts should be discouraged.
Now, maybe J&R don't have any idea how much people are hurt and how much negative impact their business has on people. If that's the case, then it's a different story.
All this to say: man looks at the outer apperance and God looks at the heart (1 Samuel 16:7). Christians are to be like God and look at the heart.
Kim wrote on April 24th 07 at 12:45PM
I am not one who usually post but I can't let this one go. I have to agree with Patricia, Steve and Retroman. I believe we need to love people with the love of Christ. Christ loved sinners and even ate with them; he did however call sin, sin. Yes we have freedom of choice but that does not justify the porn industry. The people who are in the industry while being "nice people" can not ignore what that the industry does to people. It destroys lives. Freedom of speech does not and should not cover porn material.
Daniel wrote on April 24th 07 at 01:20PM
Donny,
I really liked the post. I whole heartedly agree that we are to reach the lost. Christ didn't sit in the temple talking theology (not that there is anything wrong with that, we need to do that as Christians). The one thing that concerns me is that you repeatedly called porn industry people "Good". No one, without Christ is good. I was not good when I was a teen lost, and headed to hell. You weren't good before Christ. Heck John Piper, and even the apostle Paul were not good before Christ reached down and saved them. I do agree that some lost people desire to be good. For future reference, you may want to clarify the lost as "nice" or "friendly". Still, loved the post. It was great to finally have the truth that porn industry workers are not always the scum of our nation. I have felt that way for a long time. Please pray for me as I continue to walk away from the addiction to porn I had in highschool. The temptation is always there, but I want to leave a Godly legacy for my children one day. Thanks again,
I really liked the post. I whole heartedly agree that we are to reach the lost. Christ didn't sit in the temple talking theology (not that there is anything wrong with that, we need to do that as Christians). The one thing that concerns me is that you repeatedly called porn industry people "Good". No one, without Christ is good. I was not good when I was a teen lost, and headed to hell. You weren't good before Christ. Heck John Piper, and even the apostle Paul were not good before Christ reached down and saved them. I do agree that some lost people desire to be good. For future reference, you may want to clarify the lost as "nice" or "friendly". Still, loved the post. It was great to finally have the truth that porn industry workers are not always the scum of our nation. I have felt that way for a long time. Please pray for me as I continue to walk away from the addiction to porn I had in highschool. The temptation is always there, but I want to leave a Godly legacy for my children one day. Thanks again,
James wrote on April 24th 07 at 02:18PM
Hey AaronM, I think Tina is trying to apologize and admit her mistake, so a little mercy would be nice. Her previous perspective can certainly be underestood if it is influenced by the other media (movies and tv) that portray those in the industry as such. Such media venues rarely portray any "demographic" or "class" of people correctly and certainly too many people put their trust in what they see in those media. Steroetypes are just going to happen from those people and things around us influence us. Stories like Donny's are there just for that reason: to give perspective to the misconception of the sterotype. Christians get it too. A couple of bad apples and they think the whole bunch is bad. Too many of those on center stage for christianity don't have a clue as to how bad they make the rest of us look.
Donny, thanks again for your honesty and candor. Being antiporn industry will not stop perversion that is in the heart of man, but it can't hurt to try and curb its reaches some. Any sinful thing left uncheck will eventually destroy what is in its path. We just got to go against it with love and appreciate those in the industry as humans and stop the ugly finger waving and tongue lashings.
Donny, thanks again for your honesty and candor. Being antiporn industry will not stop perversion that is in the heart of man, but it can't hurt to try and curb its reaches some. Any sinful thing left uncheck will eventually destroy what is in its path. We just got to go against it with love and appreciate those in the industry as humans and stop the ugly finger waving and tongue lashings.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 02:52PM
Hey KenniB.....
I'm not among those who claim to love and forgive all whereas you and Tina are.
Unlike you, I tell people the truth and do not feel the need to sugar coat things in order to spare people's feelings.... Especially those who have openly passed judgement on myself in the past, like Tina, or in the present, like you. BOTH of you are shining examples of why I chose not to be a Christian.
Nice double standard you have there. :)
The world is a harsh place. I choose to deal with the reality of it instead of turning to a fictional fairy tale book for answers.
I'm not among those who claim to love and forgive all whereas you and Tina are.
Unlike you, I tell people the truth and do not feel the need to sugar coat things in order to spare people's feelings.... Especially those who have openly passed judgement on myself in the past, like Tina, or in the present, like you. BOTH of you are shining examples of why I chose not to be a Christian.
Nice double standard you have there. :)
The world is a harsh place. I choose to deal with the reality of it instead of turning to a fictional fairy tale book for answers.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 02:56PM
Retroman....
"Pornography is not "free speech" and is not protected by the first amendment. However most people do not pressure their representatives to punish indecency that is already illegal. I'm not talking about the nudes in the art museum, I am talking about porn."
Excuse me?
The United States Supreme Court has ruled "Pornography" as being protected in the very way you claim it is not. But WTF do they know....Right?
Try brushing up on your legal facts before you stick your foot in your mouth.
"Pornography is not "free speech" and is not protected by the first amendment. However most people do not pressure their representatives to punish indecency that is already illegal. I'm not talking about the nudes in the art museum, I am talking about porn."
Excuse me?
The United States Supreme Court has ruled "Pornography" as being protected in the very way you claim it is not. But WTF do they know....Right?
Try brushing up on your legal facts before you stick your foot in your mouth.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 03:12PM
Valid point James. However, what you have posted only further illustrates the overall ignorance of the general public. They are easily lead by media and the such....Just like sheep who blindly follow the lead of their shepherd....Which brings us right back to Psalms 23.
Donny wrote on April 24th 07 at 03:51PM
SteveO posted:
Donny, I hear what you’re saying about freedom to choose, and rights as citizens, and I agree. I love the freedoms our country provides for us. But as a youth worker, I counsel with 8th grade boys who are already addicted to porn, and I wish it wasn’t so easy for them to get hooked. Is there anything that can be done to restrict access to teenagers. (legislation or industry self-regulation, credit card access even for free sites, etc.)?
Steve,
There's a very good solution that takes away NO rights, yet solves the "porn problem" for those who wish to get away from porn. I'll blog about it soon. :)
Donny, I hear what you’re saying about freedom to choose, and rights as citizens, and I agree. I love the freedoms our country provides for us. But as a youth worker, I counsel with 8th grade boys who are already addicted to porn, and I wish it wasn’t so easy for them to get hooked. Is there anything that can be done to restrict access to teenagers. (legislation or industry self-regulation, credit card access even for free sites, etc.)?
Steve,
There's a very good solution that takes away NO rights, yet solves the "porn problem" for those who wish to get away from porn. I'll blog about it soon. :)
notachristian wrote on April 24th 07 at 03:57PM
I would argue that any person who has committed evil has someone in their life that would say that they were nice or normal or just like us. I am certain that people who sell drugs, are pimps, murderers, etc, have friends who think that they are really “nice”-who cares? The thing is exploiting other human begins to make a profit, is just evil-no matter how nice they are in their everyday lives.
I am not sure what your point is in pointing out how normal these people are when latter in your post you acknowledge the lives that have been damaged.
As Christians you might feel obliged to forgive, etc as woman living in this culture that is inundated with the pro porn message, I am not so inclined.
You cannot be a “nice” person and exploit others.
I am not sure what your point is in pointing out how normal these people are when latter in your post you acknowledge the lives that have been damaged.
As Christians you might feel obliged to forgive, etc as woman living in this culture that is inundated with the pro porn message, I am not so inclined.
You cannot be a “nice” person and exploit others.
Bob Loblaw wrote on April 24th 07 at 04:30PM
aaron...
i know you've read everyone's posts, as well as the article itself...about how we need to show love to EVERYONE, regardless of their situation...which I agree with
but here's the deal...
a)you called the Bible a fictional fairy tail book. It has been proven to be correct archaeologically
geographically
scientifically
spiritually
Sure, there's alot of people who claim to follow the Bible, and don't always do the best...but the book itself? Its the word of God Himself, and is the truth.
B)This isn't against you personally...and like I said at the beginning, its not against any person, but pornography has destroyed lives...it kills relationships...puts some through financial stress...is degrading towards creation...and most importantly, it kills us spiritually.
There is NOTHING....NOTHING good about pornography.
C) your comment about Psalm 23, and Christians being sheep blindly following their leader.
thanks for taking alot of it out of context.
King David wrote that to get the illustration across that with God guarding over us (like a shepard) what have we to fear?
and as far as God 'leading' us? thats a choice we have to make. I choose to Love, and obey Jesus...He has saved me from a life full of sin, and an eternity of pain. He is the author and perfector of my faith. He, and He alone created this world, along with everything in it.
It is Jesus that I CHOOSE to follow.
i know you've read everyone's posts, as well as the article itself...about how we need to show love to EVERYONE, regardless of their situation...which I agree with
but here's the deal...
a)you called the Bible a fictional fairy tail book. It has been proven to be correct archaeologically
geographically
scientifically
spiritually
Sure, there's alot of people who claim to follow the Bible, and don't always do the best...but the book itself? Its the word of God Himself, and is the truth.
B)This isn't against you personally...and like I said at the beginning, its not against any person, but pornography has destroyed lives...it kills relationships...puts some through financial stress...is degrading towards creation...and most importantly, it kills us spiritually.
There is NOTHING....NOTHING good about pornography.
C) your comment about Psalm 23, and Christians being sheep blindly following their leader.
thanks for taking alot of it out of context.
King David wrote that to get the illustration across that with God guarding over us (like a shepard) what have we to fear?
and as far as God 'leading' us? thats a choice we have to make. I choose to Love, and obey Jesus...He has saved me from a life full of sin, and an eternity of pain. He is the author and perfector of my faith. He, and He alone created this world, along with everything in it.
It is Jesus that I CHOOSE to follow.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 05:17PM
SteveO posted:
"Is there anything that can be done to restrict access to teenagers. (legislation or industry self-regulation, credit card access even for free sites, etc.)?"
Yes, it's called parental supervision and filtering software for computers. If people paid as much attention to what their kids are doing as they do to a: the porn they buy and B: blaming others.....Then this would not be an issue.
"Is there anything that can be done to restrict access to teenagers. (legislation or industry self-regulation, credit card access even for free sites, etc.)?"
Yes, it's called parental supervision and filtering software for computers. If people paid as much attention to what their kids are doing as they do to a: the porn they buy and B: blaming others.....Then this would not be an issue.
Matt wrote on April 24th 07 at 05:25PM
AaronM, after looking at all the stuff you’ve said on this thread...you talk as if you're far away and high above outside influences...as if you possessed true knowledge...
I really hope that the image that I see you painting of yourself on this thread isn’t an accurate reflection of what you actually think of yourself.
As to some of the specifics of what you said, here are some brief replies: following the good shepherd in Psalm 23 is based on the fact that he is good...why wouldn't a person follow someone who is wholly good to them? And you’re adding to the psalm…it’s not a blind sheep who follows the Shepherd, it’s a sheep who can see perfectly well. Blindness is something you added to make your own point. The sheep in the Psalm trusts the shepherd, it is not blinded to the outside world by him.
If Christians are blinded to the outside world, that is a problem of application and not the theology derived from Psalm 23.
Tina didn’t say she was a Christian. Neither did KenniB. Seems you think it’s wrong for people to jump to conclusions about you but not for you to do the same to them.
And since when did Tina pass judgment on you?
And KenniB wasn’t judging you, he was noting how what you said to Tina was unnecessary, obvious and petty. Which I agree with him, I think it was.
How do you justify talking like you do? Seems to me that you’re nothing short of ignorant concerning the negative, detrimental effects of your words on others.
I’d love to be proven wrong about you, I forgive you for what you said about Christians and for what you said to Tina and KenniB, and I love you or else I wouldn’t be saying these things so bluntly. Seriously.
I really hope that the image that I see you painting of yourself on this thread isn’t an accurate reflection of what you actually think of yourself.
As to some of the specifics of what you said, here are some brief replies: following the good shepherd in Psalm 23 is based on the fact that he is good...why wouldn't a person follow someone who is wholly good to them? And you’re adding to the psalm…it’s not a blind sheep who follows the Shepherd, it’s a sheep who can see perfectly well. Blindness is something you added to make your own point. The sheep in the Psalm trusts the shepherd, it is not blinded to the outside world by him.
If Christians are blinded to the outside world, that is a problem of application and not the theology derived from Psalm 23.
Tina didn’t say she was a Christian. Neither did KenniB. Seems you think it’s wrong for people to jump to conclusions about you but not for you to do the same to them.
And since when did Tina pass judgment on you?
And KenniB wasn’t judging you, he was noting how what you said to Tina was unnecessary, obvious and petty. Which I agree with him, I think it was.
How do you justify talking like you do? Seems to me that you’re nothing short of ignorant concerning the negative, detrimental effects of your words on others.
I’d love to be proven wrong about you, I forgive you for what you said about Christians and for what you said to Tina and KenniB, and I love you or else I wouldn’t be saying these things so bluntly. Seriously.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:09PM
Bob Loblaw
A: I am not going to bother debating religion with somebody who thinks that the bible has been proven to be correct. I have a friend who is well versed in science and he can provide better proof of aliens than you will ever be able to provide about the correctness of the bible. Of course, I think he's a whack job too.... If you want to talk about things that have been proven then perhaps you can explain to me why the average Christian still thinks Jesus was white.
B: Porn has also built lives. But you would know nothing of that. The models I have worked with were all mentally aware of what they were doing. Some of these girls are VERY happy about their lives and what porn has done for them. I've been shooting since 1991 and over those 16 years I have never...not once....had a girl contact me and tell me it ruined her life. In fact, I shot a P.K. (Preacher's Kid) who thought her dad would flip if he ever found out. Well, he found out and he told her: "We are all tempted by sins of the flesh. I'm happy for you if you are happy about what you are doing." Now THAT's what any REAL Christian would say instead of judging.
I've also seen porn build relationships.... How? Because it's a job and just like working at a bank, you meet others in the industry. Friendships form.....Donny and mine for instance....And in other cases, relationships form as well. Do you think a guy like me can go to a church singles group and find a person who will understand my line of work? Hell no. I would be shunned from the group. How do I know? Because I did that....and it happened. On top of that, it was a church that my sister attended and after people found out what I do, they stopped talking to her. Pretty nice of them, huh?
Financial stress? You mean like losing your $100,000.00 boat, cars, and house? Oh wait......That's what finding God cost Donny. I personally know more people in the adult industry who have 6 and 7 figure incomes than any other industry I have ever worked in. Frivolous law suits and the high prices of medical services have destroy more people financially than porn ever will. If you can't afford to buy porn then you can find plenty of it for free on the Internet. Even the free tour on DonnysGirls.com for example.
Kills people spiritually? Nigga please. How can jerking off to ChurchUpskirts.com kill anybody spiritually? Kinda makes me consider returning to church.
C: Now.....Go to Google and type in the following: "The Lord is my shepherd." Then click on the images link. Hmmm....I see a lot of biblical drawings/painting that show a WHITE Jesus and a bunch of sheep. In fact, when I was a kid, my bible even had pictures like these in it. Now, please tell again how I am taking it out of context.
You have your beliefs and I have mine. I respect your right to your beliefs even though I do not agree with them.
A: I am not going to bother debating religion with somebody who thinks that the bible has been proven to be correct. I have a friend who is well versed in science and he can provide better proof of aliens than you will ever be able to provide about the correctness of the bible. Of course, I think he's a whack job too.... If you want to talk about things that have been proven then perhaps you can explain to me why the average Christian still thinks Jesus was white.
B: Porn has also built lives. But you would know nothing of that. The models I have worked with were all mentally aware of what they were doing. Some of these girls are VERY happy about their lives and what porn has done for them. I've been shooting since 1991 and over those 16 years I have never...not once....had a girl contact me and tell me it ruined her life. In fact, I shot a P.K. (Preacher's Kid) who thought her dad would flip if he ever found out. Well, he found out and he told her: "We are all tempted by sins of the flesh. I'm happy for you if you are happy about what you are doing." Now THAT's what any REAL Christian would say instead of judging.
I've also seen porn build relationships.... How? Because it's a job and just like working at a bank, you meet others in the industry. Friendships form.....Donny and mine for instance....And in other cases, relationships form as well. Do you think a guy like me can go to a church singles group and find a person who will understand my line of work? Hell no. I would be shunned from the group. How do I know? Because I did that....and it happened. On top of that, it was a church that my sister attended and after people found out what I do, they stopped talking to her. Pretty nice of them, huh?
Financial stress? You mean like losing your $100,000.00 boat, cars, and house? Oh wait......That's what finding God cost Donny. I personally know more people in the adult industry who have 6 and 7 figure incomes than any other industry I have ever worked in. Frivolous law suits and the high prices of medical services have destroy more people financially than porn ever will. If you can't afford to buy porn then you can find plenty of it for free on the Internet. Even the free tour on DonnysGirls.com for example.
Kills people spiritually? Nigga please. How can jerking off to ChurchUpskirts.com kill anybody spiritually? Kinda makes me consider returning to church.
C: Now.....Go to Google and type in the following: "The Lord is my shepherd." Then click on the images link. Hmmm....I see a lot of biblical drawings/painting that show a WHITE Jesus and a bunch of sheep. In fact, when I was a kid, my bible even had pictures like these in it. Now, please tell again how I am taking it out of context.
You have your beliefs and I have mine. I respect your right to your beliefs even though I do not agree with them.
Sean wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:16PM
Oh, I am the one who usually goes by Sean on this site, not the same Sean above. I don't know that that matters, but wanted to straighten that out.
In response to AaronM- "Yes, it's called parental supervision and filtering software for computers." I realize this isn't totally the issue you are hitting on, but the truth is I am pretty convinced masterbation and porn is about as addictive as any illegal drug in existence. The main difference is the damage done to the body is significantly less (probably negliglible at worst), but it is probably just as addictive if not more so. Having a filter only goes so far. As an adult, who is supposed to be supervising me? I mean, if I was hooked on heroin and I could access it without leaving my own home, wouldn't you say that it was a problem? I think there should be a solution that does keep porn away from those of us who would prefer not to have any access to it. I don't care that much whether people who don't have a problem with porn can access to it, I just would prefer that I didn't have to deal with it myself.
As far as kids go, it sure would be nice if parents didn't have to work so hard to make sure their kids stay out of trouble. It seems like an unnecessary burden to me. And with everything going on, it is easy for such a thing to fall off the radar screen. It is rather idealistic to expect parents to always be on the ball as to tracking what their kids do online. Just my opinion, but I am guessing some parents with teens would probably agree with me...
In response to AaronM- "Yes, it's called parental supervision and filtering software for computers." I realize this isn't totally the issue you are hitting on, but the truth is I am pretty convinced masterbation and porn is about as addictive as any illegal drug in existence. The main difference is the damage done to the body is significantly less (probably negliglible at worst), but it is probably just as addictive if not more so. Having a filter only goes so far. As an adult, who is supposed to be supervising me? I mean, if I was hooked on heroin and I could access it without leaving my own home, wouldn't you say that it was a problem? I think there should be a solution that does keep porn away from those of us who would prefer not to have any access to it. I don't care that much whether people who don't have a problem with porn can access to it, I just would prefer that I didn't have to deal with it myself.
As far as kids go, it sure would be nice if parents didn't have to work so hard to make sure their kids stay out of trouble. It seems like an unnecessary burden to me. And with everything going on, it is easy for such a thing to fall off the radar screen. It is rather idealistic to expect parents to always be on the ball as to tracking what their kids do online. Just my opinion, but I am guessing some parents with teens would probably agree with me...
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:38PM
Hey Matt....
I don't give two shits about you, how you perceive me, or whether you have forgiven me or not. What I think of myself is none of your concern either. The mere fact that you posted that you forgive me shows me that you are just as arrogant if not more so than I. Why do you feel that you are so important that your forgiveness of me matters at all? You're not my friend nor do you contribute to anything positive in my life.
I don't care if people jump to conclusions about me. I've simply stated that they are wrong, as Christians, in doing so. Since I am not a Christian the same rules do not apply to me. I'm direct, not two faced.
I will tell you this though....
Donny said: "He has little patience for ignorance."
He's right and the simple fact of it all is that I consider anybody who lives their life based on the bible to be ignorant. That does not mean I dislike them but since I am responding on a Christian board then I feel it's fair to say that IMHO, I am surrounded by people who are ignorant about the reality of porn.
Here's something you can do to help stop Internet porn:
Stop using the Internet. Stop using online banking, eBay, any kind of online eCommerece or secure anything. Stop using online affiliate programs or clicking on ANY button, banner, or text link. Why? Because ALL of that uses technology that was originally pioneered by the Adult Internet. And people say porn does nothing positive for society.
I don't give two shits about you, how you perceive me, or whether you have forgiven me or not. What I think of myself is none of your concern either. The mere fact that you posted that you forgive me shows me that you are just as arrogant if not more so than I. Why do you feel that you are so important that your forgiveness of me matters at all? You're not my friend nor do you contribute to anything positive in my life.
I don't care if people jump to conclusions about me. I've simply stated that they are wrong, as Christians, in doing so. Since I am not a Christian the same rules do not apply to me. I'm direct, not two faced.
I will tell you this though....
Donny said: "He has little patience for ignorance."
He's right and the simple fact of it all is that I consider anybody who lives their life based on the bible to be ignorant. That does not mean I dislike them but since I am responding on a Christian board then I feel it's fair to say that IMHO, I am surrounded by people who are ignorant about the reality of porn.
Here's something you can do to help stop Internet porn:
Stop using the Internet. Stop using online banking, eBay, any kind of online eCommerece or secure anything. Stop using online affiliate programs or clicking on ANY button, banner, or text link. Why? Because ALL of that uses technology that was originally pioneered by the Adult Internet. And people say porn does nothing positive for society.
xman62 wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:45PM
Know what, Donny? Most Nazis probably seemed like "very good people" to those who knew them personally, and I'm sure the same can be said of the homicidal Muslims of Al Qaeda as well as crack dealers. Sure, people who work extremely hard to exploit others simply to become rich can be mannerly and seem normal, but you neglect to correctly label their hard work as wickedness, according not only to scripture, but to basic moral sensibilities.
It makes no sense that you would defend the production of this moral sewage as just another career choice.
It makes no sense that you would defend the production of this moral sewage as just another career choice.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 06:58PM
To the other Sean....
Yes, porn is addictive.
I'm currently dating a recovering drug addict. She got hooked on pain killers which were prescribed to her after she had surgery for Endometriosis. She wasted 4 years of her life as a junkie. The guy she was with at the time was worse than her. He is now out of the picture and that finally gave her the kick she needed to get her life back together.
FYI, I tried to help her get clean for abut 3 years. I have now given her desk job, a house to live in, and the ability to travel the world. She knows if she touches that shit again that it will end it all and believe me, that's a lot to lose especially when you struggle as much as she has to get where she is.
Now, do you think she complains about how easy it is for her to get drugs when she is trying to stay away from them? No, she doesn't. It's called personal responsibility and unfortunately, just like parental responsibility, it often gets passed off to others.
I'm fat. Not too far under 300 pounds. Why? Because I like food. Taco Bell, McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, and Jack in the box are all a short drive away. In fact, I could walk to them but being that I am fat, I am also too lazy for that.....
I'm addicted to food. Should I be pissed at the fast food industry for making their poison so readily available? Porn isn't going to kill me but my CHOSEN diet very well may. That's MY choice. Just like those who choose drugs, porn, or any other addiction.
If society thinks that everybody else is responsible for their actions then how about if we start sending crime victims to jail instead of the poor criminals who committed the crimes?
Yes, porn is addictive.
I'm currently dating a recovering drug addict. She got hooked on pain killers which were prescribed to her after she had surgery for Endometriosis. She wasted 4 years of her life as a junkie. The guy she was with at the time was worse than her. He is now out of the picture and that finally gave her the kick she needed to get her life back together.
FYI, I tried to help her get clean for abut 3 years. I have now given her desk job, a house to live in, and the ability to travel the world. She knows if she touches that shit again that it will end it all and believe me, that's a lot to lose especially when you struggle as much as she has to get where she is.
Now, do you think she complains about how easy it is for her to get drugs when she is trying to stay away from them? No, she doesn't. It's called personal responsibility and unfortunately, just like parental responsibility, it often gets passed off to others.
I'm fat. Not too far under 300 pounds. Why? Because I like food. Taco Bell, McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, and Jack in the box are all a short drive away. In fact, I could walk to them but being that I am fat, I am also too lazy for that.....
I'm addicted to food. Should I be pissed at the fast food industry for making their poison so readily available? Porn isn't going to kill me but my CHOSEN diet very well may. That's MY choice. Just like those who choose drugs, porn, or any other addiction.
If society thinks that everybody else is responsible for their actions then how about if we start sending crime victims to jail instead of the poor criminals who committed the crimes?
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 07:15PM
xman62
You have just compared hate groups and drug dealers which have contributed to the loss of millions of lives to those who run legit and legal businesses.
Like it or not, life for the average U.S. citizen revolves around marketing and exploiting.
People earn their living by either marketing themselves or their product/service. By definition, they or their employers then exploit the general public.
ex·
–verb (used with object) 1. to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
That mean you, as somebody who earns an income, exploit people every day of your life for money.
I hope you feel wicked now.
You have just compared hate groups and drug dealers which have contributed to the loss of millions of lives to those who run legit and legal businesses.
Like it or not, life for the average U.S. citizen revolves around marketing and exploiting.
People earn their living by either marketing themselves or their product/service. By definition, they or their employers then exploit the general public.
ex·
–verb (used with object) 1. to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
That mean you, as somebody who earns an income, exploit people every day of your life for money.
I hope you feel wicked now.
Sean wrote on April 24th 07 at 07:40PM
I was not passing responsibility to other people for my problem. Personally, I don't have access to the internet at home because I don't want to fall down. So I don't pass the buck.
Jesus said that there is a responsibility, though, for those that produce the stumbling block others fall on. Is there a range? I don't know how Jesus will respond to fast food magnates, who produce a product that in some cases is obviously injurous to those who eat it. However, porn is a severe stumbling block to many believers, and just because the person who stumbles will be held accountable for their actions, the heavier judgement will be on the one who produced the stumbling block for their own gain.
Your analogy though only goes so far. Are you saying that it would be cool if crack cocaine, heroine, methamphetimines were legal? That would be the logical conclusion to your argument. Most people would agree with me, that it makes sense to have laws to protect people from addictions. And while addiction to porn won't kill you, it can make you lose your job, your wife, your family- everything that is dear to you.
Truth is, I think pornography is more addictive than fast food- and I am willing to bet I am not the only one with that opinion. I am not saying I don't sympathize with your plight. But if you could instantly get fast food through your computer, how much more do you think you would weigh? At least you have to go out to fill a craving, at least you have to do some work. Porn is a click away. Maybe I feel as dirty from the porn I have consumed as you feel fat from the food you have consumed. Ever thought of that?
Ultimately, I don't think I will ever have internet access in my home, as long as there is no guarantee of not accessing it. I have to deal with having internet access at work, but that is a different matter altogether. While it is true that I could access porn by going to the library (a walk, as your walk to KFC) I have enough self control not to do that. Having access in my own home, however, is a different matter...
Jesus said that there is a responsibility, though, for those that produce the stumbling block others fall on. Is there a range? I don't know how Jesus will respond to fast food magnates, who produce a product that in some cases is obviously injurous to those who eat it. However, porn is a severe stumbling block to many believers, and just because the person who stumbles will be held accountable for their actions, the heavier judgement will be on the one who produced the stumbling block for their own gain.
Your analogy though only goes so far. Are you saying that it would be cool if crack cocaine, heroine, methamphetimines were legal? That would be the logical conclusion to your argument. Most people would agree with me, that it makes sense to have laws to protect people from addictions. And while addiction to porn won't kill you, it can make you lose your job, your wife, your family- everything that is dear to you.
Truth is, I think pornography is more addictive than fast food- and I am willing to bet I am not the only one with that opinion. I am not saying I don't sympathize with your plight. But if you could instantly get fast food through your computer, how much more do you think you would weigh? At least you have to go out to fill a craving, at least you have to do some work. Porn is a click away. Maybe I feel as dirty from the porn I have consumed as you feel fat from the food you have consumed. Ever thought of that?
Ultimately, I don't think I will ever have internet access in my home, as long as there is no guarantee of not accessing it. I have to deal with having internet access at work, but that is a different matter altogether. While it is true that I could access porn by going to the library (a walk, as your walk to KFC) I have enough self control not to do that. Having access in my own home, however, is a different matter...
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:12PM
I never even implied that those drugs should be legal.
You think porn is more addictive than fast food?
Go pull the statistics on how much money was spent on fast food last year then compare that to the dollars spent on porn. I think you already know where that will lead you.
You are addicted to porn and are too weak minded to kick that addiction so you think others should be responsible for limiting your access. What about the rights others should have to view adult materials in the privacy of their own home without the embarrassment of being seen in an adult store?
Pizza Hut delivers so if I'm really feeling lazy then I can call them....However...I have a beautiful lady who is almost done cooking dinner for me right now so I gotta run. :)
You think porn is more addictive than fast food?
Go pull the statistics on how much money was spent on fast food last year then compare that to the dollars spent on porn. I think you already know where that will lead you.
You are addicted to porn and are too weak minded to kick that addiction so you think others should be responsible for limiting your access. What about the rights others should have to view adult materials in the privacy of their own home without the embarrassment of being seen in an adult store?
Pizza Hut delivers so if I'm really feeling lazy then I can call them....However...I have a beautiful lady who is almost done cooking dinner for me right now so I gotta run. :)
Sean wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:22PM
Hey man.
For years people have been able to pay cable television to have channels that offer porn. This arrangement satisfies both parties. Obviously a solution such as this should be available on the internet.
While Pizza Hut is delivering, you do have the chance to change your mind... cancel your order. It might be rude, but it's better than falling down. Once or twice of canceling, and I bet Pizza Hut stops taking your phone calls...
And the only reason I think that fast food rakes in more money than porn... there is a lot more free porn on the net than free fast food. Heck, I have struggled with porn addiction and I have never paid a single cent for porn. On the other hand, I pay probably $50 a month on fast food- mainly Subway. I don't think, though, I have problem with fast food. Without paying a cent for porn, however, I clearly have a problem with it.
I am too "weak minded" eh? Okay, that is your opinion. With my disabilities, I am quite vulnerable to compulsive behaviors. Inspite of body chemistry working against me, however, I think I have had success. I just think we should have to make a decision for porn to be accessible to us, just like someone who orders cable decides not to get pay-per-view channels. You really think this is wrong?
For years people have been able to pay cable television to have channels that offer porn. This arrangement satisfies both parties. Obviously a solution such as this should be available on the internet.
While Pizza Hut is delivering, you do have the chance to change your mind... cancel your order. It might be rude, but it's better than falling down. Once or twice of canceling, and I bet Pizza Hut stops taking your phone calls...
And the only reason I think that fast food rakes in more money than porn... there is a lot more free porn on the net than free fast food. Heck, I have struggled with porn addiction and I have never paid a single cent for porn. On the other hand, I pay probably $50 a month on fast food- mainly Subway. I don't think, though, I have problem with fast food. Without paying a cent for porn, however, I clearly have a problem with it.
I am too "weak minded" eh? Okay, that is your opinion. With my disabilities, I am quite vulnerable to compulsive behaviors. Inspite of body chemistry working against me, however, I think I have had success. I just think we should have to make a decision for porn to be accessible to us, just like someone who orders cable decides not to get pay-per-view channels. You really think this is wrong?
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:39PM
Yes, I do think it's wrong.
When you open your browser you have choices to make....Just like when you turn on your TV.
Whether you are pushing the "BUY" button for PPV porn or going to a porn site, you are still making that choice. Just just having cable gives you access to softcore porn.
As for fee porn.....That's a very different topic. I think free porn should go away altogether but for different reasons than you.
For what it's worth.....Your arguments make more sense than any others on this page. If you and I were to meet in public and not know what we know about each other, I have a feeling we would get along very well.
When you open your browser you have choices to make....Just like when you turn on your TV.
Whether you are pushing the "BUY" button for PPV porn or going to a porn site, you are still making that choice. Just just having cable gives you access to softcore porn.
As for fee porn.....That's a very different topic. I think free porn should go away altogether but for different reasons than you.
For what it's worth.....Your arguments make more sense than any others on this page. If you and I were to meet in public and not know what we know about each other, I have a feeling we would get along very well.
T wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:40PM
I think it's alot like with people who are "gay" and "ex-gay" now that we are talking about those in the industry and those that left it...I mean gay as identity and as a political activism, plus possibly all the other current political definitions used with the term. (LGBT if you prefer, still in terms of identity and politics, "alternative lifestyles" as some call it-can apply both to LGBT and to the industry...
I feel alot of Christian "ex-gays" would relate to alot of what you experienced leaving the industry, when they left the LGBT community. Also the church does not seem to know how to handle ex-gays or those that left the industry...eventually we will get there but we are still learning.
I have left the LGBT community but still have friends who have their whole identity in that...it's their whole life-like their religion. In a way, it seems like the industry you've left is also a kind of secular religion, like LGBT activism tends to be. Way of life, set of beliefs, set of practices, rituals,a community and subculture all its own...I'm sure they both have their golden calves to worship as well...
Aside from that I'd also like to comment on
pastors and preachers dealing with porn issues. I know mostly men, alot of men, inside and outside the church, struggle with porn addictions or have in the past, up to and including the men called as pastors and preachers. All of the men with this porn struggle need God's help, prayer, accountability partners, whatever it takes to deal with the porn addictions, save marriages and families and churches.
It hurts men and women and children. I know a pastor who was delivered from porn addiction and he lives now in constant accountability to other men of God, and he uses filters when he goes online. He guards what movies and TV shows he watches, and has gone for marriage counseling to improve and save his marriage and family. If he falls we will pray for him and help him find healing in God. It can happen to any man.
These are just my opinions-I admire any person willing to leave porn and follow after God...porn will not give you God's joy...porn is an empty counterfeit of real joy the way God intended for sex to be for husbands and wives....
Anyway, that's all my comments for now.
I thank God for not leaving me in my LGBT life, but for loving me enough to bring me out of that...
I feel alot of Christian "ex-gays" would relate to alot of what you experienced leaving the industry, when they left the LGBT community. Also the church does not seem to know how to handle ex-gays or those that left the industry...eventually we will get there but we are still learning.
I have left the LGBT community but still have friends who have their whole identity in that...it's their whole life-like their religion. In a way, it seems like the industry you've left is also a kind of secular religion, like LGBT activism tends to be. Way of life, set of beliefs, set of practices, rituals,a community and subculture all its own...I'm sure they both have their golden calves to worship as well...
Aside from that I'd also like to comment on
pastors and preachers dealing with porn issues. I know mostly men, alot of men, inside and outside the church, struggle with porn addictions or have in the past, up to and including the men called as pastors and preachers. All of the men with this porn struggle need God's help, prayer, accountability partners, whatever it takes to deal with the porn addictions, save marriages and families and churches.
It hurts men and women and children. I know a pastor who was delivered from porn addiction and he lives now in constant accountability to other men of God, and he uses filters when he goes online. He guards what movies and TV shows he watches, and has gone for marriage counseling to improve and save his marriage and family. If he falls we will pray for him and help him find healing in God. It can happen to any man.
These are just my opinions-I admire any person willing to leave porn and follow after God...porn will not give you God's joy...porn is an empty counterfeit of real joy the way God intended for sex to be for husbands and wives....
Anyway, that's all my comments for now.
I thank God for not leaving me in my LGBT life, but for loving me enough to bring me out of that...
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:43PM
Patricia Hein:
"One more thought on all this . . . Here is a angle you could come from . . .instead of all of us having to "humanize" them and see them as "real" "hardworking" "normal" people . . .why don't you show more of the other side, show them what effects "their job" has on others on society."
Well..How about because that side of things is seen in the media every day and the side Donny is trying to show you is always left out. Plus the media LIES and exaggerates things WAY out of proportion.
"One more thought on all this . . . Here is a angle you could come from . . .instead of all of us having to "humanize" them and see them as "real" "hardworking" "normal" people . . .why don't you show more of the other side, show them what effects "their job" has on others on society."
Well..How about because that side of things is seen in the media every day and the side Donny is trying to show you is always left out. Plus the media LIES and exaggerates things WAY out of proportion.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 08:56PM
Oh now this one is a real gem.....
I just got off the phone with Donny and he told me about this post. I seem to have overlooked it before...
By Jonathan Miles on 4.24.2007 at 12:04 AM
"Great insight from Donny, and to see his friend Aaron M. join in the comments.
Aaron names a retired pastor from his area (with a minor misspelling) possibly caught in sexual and financial sin. Would it be better to delete his name from the comments, AND make a point of sending some brothers to speak with the man personally?"
First off, I never mentioned that he was retired. Secondly, how do you know his name is misspelled?
Now you think his name should be removed? Why? If he was a porn producer would you remove his name and send people to speak with him?
Either you know him or you took the time to Google him. I have googled him and at first glance was not able to find what you found so I can only conclude that he is a friend of yours. Why else would you want to protect a minister who has done such things?
Here, I'll make things easier for the rest of you....
Sellwood Methodist Church:
1422 SE Tacoma St. Portland, Oregon
I can post him home address too if you like.
I just got off the phone with Donny and he told me about this post. I seem to have overlooked it before...
By Jonathan Miles on 4.24.2007 at 12:04 AM
"Great insight from Donny, and to see his friend Aaron M. join in the comments.
Aaron names a retired pastor from his area (with a minor misspelling) possibly caught in sexual and financial sin. Would it be better to delete his name from the comments, AND make a point of sending some brothers to speak with the man personally?"
First off, I never mentioned that he was retired. Secondly, how do you know his name is misspelled?
Now you think his name should be removed? Why? If he was a porn producer would you remove his name and send people to speak with him?
Either you know him or you took the time to Google him. I have googled him and at first glance was not able to find what you found so I can only conclude that he is a friend of yours. Why else would you want to protect a minister who has done such things?
Here, I'll make things easier for the rest of you....
Sellwood Methodist Church:
1422 SE Tacoma St. Portland, Oregon
I can post him home address too if you like.
Sean wrote on April 24th 07 at 09:53PM
I am still willing to be friends if you want. After all, my model is Jesus- and he made no bones about befriending people he disagreed with. However, if you are uncomfortable with my stances on porn, I understand.
"Just having cable gives you access to softcore porn." Yeah, I suppose that is only a small part of the reason I don't have cable. I thought you had to get extras or had to pay more for that. That is interesting. Personally, the infomercials for "Girls Gone Wild" is too much- and when my roommate and I did have cable (the appartment came with cable, in the end I shoved the cable up back through the hole from whence it came) that was the worst I saw. I don't know that all cable providers are the same. Still, it is a choice to have cable or not, as opposed to having TV or not- which is the analogy related to having internet or not.
I think the only people who would lose out on having the Internet work like cable works (as I understand cable working, maybe you know differently) would be that men would either have to hide from their wife what internet plan they got, or admit to their wife that they specifically got internet that had porn enabled. I mean, do you really like profitting from peoples personal struggles? Regardless of choices made by the individual, you are telling me it doesn't bother you in the least that some of the money you earn was at the expense of someone who is so hooked on porn they can't seem to figure out how to stop? I mean, I don't know if I would like that. Otherwise, I would think your conscience would prefer that people had a choice as to whether their internet access allowed porn or not. Then you know that it is less likely someone is compulsively using your product- that if they are looking at porn, it is because they made a decision when they signed up with their provider that porn is what they wanted. Seems like you would benefit as well from this arrangement. Unless you like having a sort of blood diamond for income.
If you want to converse privately, mention it on your next message. I will send my email address to Donny (I would prefer not to post it here), who can give it to you. I am willing- and happy to talk about the myriad of other topics available aside from porn, or whatever you want to talk about. Just let me know. =)
"Just having cable gives you access to softcore porn." Yeah, I suppose that is only a small part of the reason I don't have cable. I thought you had to get extras or had to pay more for that. That is interesting. Personally, the infomercials for "Girls Gone Wild" is too much- and when my roommate and I did have cable (the appartment came with cable, in the end I shoved the cable up back through the hole from whence it came) that was the worst I saw. I don't know that all cable providers are the same. Still, it is a choice to have cable or not, as opposed to having TV or not- which is the analogy related to having internet or not.
I think the only people who would lose out on having the Internet work like cable works (as I understand cable working, maybe you know differently) would be that men would either have to hide from their wife what internet plan they got, or admit to their wife that they specifically got internet that had porn enabled. I mean, do you really like profitting from peoples personal struggles? Regardless of choices made by the individual, you are telling me it doesn't bother you in the least that some of the money you earn was at the expense of someone who is so hooked on porn they can't seem to figure out how to stop? I mean, I don't know if I would like that. Otherwise, I would think your conscience would prefer that people had a choice as to whether their internet access allowed porn or not. Then you know that it is less likely someone is compulsively using your product- that if they are looking at porn, it is because they made a decision when they signed up with their provider that porn is what they wanted. Seems like you would benefit as well from this arrangement. Unless you like having a sort of blood diamond for income.
If you want to converse privately, mention it on your next message. I will send my email address to Donny (I would prefer not to post it here), who can give it to you. I am willing- and happy to talk about the myriad of other topics available aside from porn, or whatever you want to talk about. Just let me know. =)
xman62 wrote on April 24th 07 at 10:20PM
Dear self-righteous AaronM,
I make a meager living as a teacher in public schools. Just who am I exploiting?
I make a meager living as a teacher in public schools. Just who am I exploiting?
JesseB wrote on April 24th 07 at 11:04PM
I am a Christian, and try to live my life like Christ, not like other christians. I am also addicted to porn, and I know that it IS in fact hurting my marriage. I have the filtering software, I resisted the internet in our home for a long time (until my wife needed it for her grad school), and I have placed rules for myself to safeguard further problems (no watching TV alone, etc.); furthermore my wife knows about the problem, I have confessed to her and sought her forgiveness and her help on the subject. I also have a bachelor's degree in ministry from an accredited Christian school, and I say all this to give you some idea of where I am coming from.
Aaron, at first your comments upset me on this post, not because of what they said necessarily but because they seemed very closed-minded and unreasonable. This opinion has nothing to do with me being a Christian or not, but trying to be a rational and logical thinker. However as the conversation ensued I began seeing your rationale and actually agree with you on some things. There are a lot of things that are competely legal and destroy families and jobs similar to the way that porn does. From fast food like we have discussed (as if anyone can eat fast food without knowing that it's bad for them . . . ) and on into the world of alcohol these things can destroy, and will destroy, if not stopped. With alcohol and fast food, though, the odds of them completely destroying a life is very small. Alcohol more than fast food can interrupt a persons's psyche; they begin looking forward to doing it after work, sometimes taking the risk of drinking while on the job, or going into work drunk, etc. This can lead to being fired and financial problems, which can ruin marriages and cause life problems. With pornography I believe that it goes deeper. You cannot get fatter walking down the street, nor can you get drunk when you are working out at the gym; however it is very likely an attractive woman will pass by you on the street with your eyes sure to follow, and the tight-shorted girl running on the treadmill is very hard to stop staring at. These I believe to be the deep-rooted psychological and full-time effects of a life of looking at pornography. I know because I fight these thoughts pretty much anytime I am in public; I take notice of about every female ass to pass within eyeshot, and even though I don't consciously think about it, it still happens. It's automatic, and I'm trying to kick the habit, but it is VERY difficult.
I do not think that we need to be lobbying for legislations to outlaw pornography because that's a big waste of everyone's time, because you can't legislate women walking down the street. Aaron, I also agree that there are many safeguards in place if parents REALLY took the time to use them effectively. This does not remove blame from the actual user, not by any means, but there is some responsibility that needs to be placed on the parents as the older, wiser protector of the family.
It's been said that porn hurts your spirituality; I agree wholeheartedly with one exemption: How can you guys expect someone like Aaron to listen to or be affected by that logic? I'm not saying that Aaron doesn't have any spiritual sense about him, but it seems that this issue doesn't seem to bother his spirit (nor could you expect it to since that's his occupation).
I agree completely with Donny that those in the porn industry are real people. I always imagined the neandrethals that lived inside of prison walls to be the lowest form of humans; that is, until I went and visited a prison a couple times and met a few inmates. Inmates are people too, struggling with issues that plague many of us on the outside. The only exception is at one time or another, they snapped; and when they snapped they got caught. I'd imagine most of us have done things deserving of jail time, except we didn't get caught.
How does this relate to porn producers? We are all sinners saved by, or needing to be, saved by God's Grace. DAILY I do something that makes me unqualified to receive the Gift of Heaven and life in God's Will, but DAILY I am given God's Grace to wash over all of the stupid things I do. This is the very same Grace that has been passed to Donny, and that he and the XXXchurch guys and a few select awesome Christians are trying to show to every other sinner on this planet. Someone mentioned about that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, and that's exactly right, and I wish that more christians practiced that. Donny, I loved what you said about getting out of the pew and causing action, and that's what I love about the XXXchurch boys; you aren't waiting for porn stars to seek God, you are going to them and just being cool, not throwing things down their throats but (gasp, like Aaron said) building relationships with the "sinners". Funny, I think Jesus did things sort of like that too.
And Aaron, about the white Jesus': I don't understand the Americanized Christianity either.
Aaron, at first your comments upset me on this post, not because of what they said necessarily but because they seemed very closed-minded and unreasonable. This opinion has nothing to do with me being a Christian or not, but trying to be a rational and logical thinker. However as the conversation ensued I began seeing your rationale and actually agree with you on some things. There are a lot of things that are competely legal and destroy families and jobs similar to the way that porn does. From fast food like we have discussed (as if anyone can eat fast food without knowing that it's bad for them . . . ) and on into the world of alcohol these things can destroy, and will destroy, if not stopped. With alcohol and fast food, though, the odds of them completely destroying a life is very small. Alcohol more than fast food can interrupt a persons's psyche; they begin looking forward to doing it after work, sometimes taking the risk of drinking while on the job, or going into work drunk, etc. This can lead to being fired and financial problems, which can ruin marriages and cause life problems. With pornography I believe that it goes deeper. You cannot get fatter walking down the street, nor can you get drunk when you are working out at the gym; however it is very likely an attractive woman will pass by you on the street with your eyes sure to follow, and the tight-shorted girl running on the treadmill is very hard to stop staring at. These I believe to be the deep-rooted psychological and full-time effects of a life of looking at pornography. I know because I fight these thoughts pretty much anytime I am in public; I take notice of about every female ass to pass within eyeshot, and even though I don't consciously think about it, it still happens. It's automatic, and I'm trying to kick the habit, but it is VERY difficult.
I do not think that we need to be lobbying for legislations to outlaw pornography because that's a big waste of everyone's time, because you can't legislate women walking down the street. Aaron, I also agree that there are many safeguards in place if parents REALLY took the time to use them effectively. This does not remove blame from the actual user, not by any means, but there is some responsibility that needs to be placed on the parents as the older, wiser protector of the family.
It's been said that porn hurts your spirituality; I agree wholeheartedly with one exemption: How can you guys expect someone like Aaron to listen to or be affected by that logic? I'm not saying that Aaron doesn't have any spiritual sense about him, but it seems that this issue doesn't seem to bother his spirit (nor could you expect it to since that's his occupation).
I agree completely with Donny that those in the porn industry are real people. I always imagined the neandrethals that lived inside of prison walls to be the lowest form of humans; that is, until I went and visited a prison a couple times and met a few inmates. Inmates are people too, struggling with issues that plague many of us on the outside. The only exception is at one time or another, they snapped; and when they snapped they got caught. I'd imagine most of us have done things deserving of jail time, except we didn't get caught.
How does this relate to porn producers? We are all sinners saved by, or needing to be, saved by God's Grace. DAILY I do something that makes me unqualified to receive the Gift of Heaven and life in God's Will, but DAILY I am given God's Grace to wash over all of the stupid things I do. This is the very same Grace that has been passed to Donny, and that he and the XXXchurch guys and a few select awesome Christians are trying to show to every other sinner on this planet. Someone mentioned about that we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, and that's exactly right, and I wish that more christians practiced that. Donny, I loved what you said about getting out of the pew and causing action, and that's what I love about the XXXchurch boys; you aren't waiting for porn stars to seek God, you are going to them and just being cool, not throwing things down their throats but (gasp, like Aaron said) building relationships with the "sinners". Funny, I think Jesus did things sort of like that too.
And Aaron, about the white Jesus': I don't understand the Americanized Christianity either.
AaronM wrote on April 24th 07 at 11:12PM
Dear judgmental holier than thou xman62,
Did you say PUBLIC school?
Would you like to discuss how the American public school system fucks people over day in and day out?
Public school systems suck. As a teacher, nobody should know this more than you. Yet, you continue to hold that same job. You take money from the public and provide a shit service for it. If that's not exploitation then I don't know what is.
How many of your students have you secretly wanted to have sex with? You sit at the front of the class....How many skirts to you get to peek up each day? People may not like what I am insinuating here but you and I know the truth whether you admit it or not.
At least in my line of work, I don't have to conceal my intentions.
Did you say PUBLIC school?
Would you like to discuss how the American public school system fucks people over day in and day out?
Public school systems suck. As a teacher, nobody should know this more than you. Yet, you continue to hold that same job. You take money from the public and provide a shit service for it. If that's not exploitation then I don't know what is.
How many of your students have you secretly wanted to have sex with? You sit at the front of the class....How many skirts to you get to peek up each day? People may not like what I am insinuating here but you and I know the truth whether you admit it or not.
At least in my line of work, I don't have to conceal my intentions.
Daniel Iverson wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:51AM
Thanks Donny for the wonderful heartfelt insight. Im sorry to hear that J&R have kept their distance. Ill pray that God reconcile and restore that relationship. Aaron M sounds like a terrific duder. Proving yet again that GOD can and does still work thru anybody regardless of what they do. He sounds like I a guy I would like to know.
Matt wrote on April 25th 07 at 04:23PM
AaronM,
I suppose it was arrogant sounding of me to say that I forgive you. It wasn't meant to come off that way, so I'm sorry about that. I didn't mean to imply that you needed or wanted my forgiveness, I just wanted to say that I don't hold any grudges for wrongs I feel you've committed, in case it came off that way in the rest of the post. I was trying to communicate my motive. But in hindsight, it was a mistake.
To all,
Reading the original post and specifically the paragraph about Aaron Matthews, I am struck by how he acts towards his friends, and how that compares to how Jesus acted and to how we should act towards everyone in this world.
Think of Lazarus, the disciples, even Israel back in the Old Testament and how God was (is) genuinely emotionally and spiritually invested in them. Think also about how God has revealed himself to us in both the living and written Word...that's some vulnerability for us.
God has been vulnerable to us, and it's our call to be vulnerable like him, letting our position as loved ones in Jesus through the Spirit keep us secure and just opening ourselves up (with wisdom...sharing your whole life with everyone recklessly probably isn't a good idea) to others. That's a big way...I'd say the primary way...we can (and should, and must) be showing people we love them, by building open, strong, genuine relationships with them. And not only with people outside but also those inside the church. Think of John 17.23. It's a challenge for us as Christians.
I suppose it was arrogant sounding of me to say that I forgive you. It wasn't meant to come off that way, so I'm sorry about that. I didn't mean to imply that you needed or wanted my forgiveness, I just wanted to say that I don't hold any grudges for wrongs I feel you've committed, in case it came off that way in the rest of the post. I was trying to communicate my motive. But in hindsight, it was a mistake.
To all,
Reading the original post and specifically the paragraph about Aaron Matthews, I am struck by how he acts towards his friends, and how that compares to how Jesus acted and to how we should act towards everyone in this world.
Think of Lazarus, the disciples, even Israel back in the Old Testament and how God was (is) genuinely emotionally and spiritually invested in them. Think also about how God has revealed himself to us in both the living and written Word...that's some vulnerability for us.
God has been vulnerable to us, and it's our call to be vulnerable like him, letting our position as loved ones in Jesus through the Spirit keep us secure and just opening ourselves up (with wisdom...sharing your whole life with everyone recklessly probably isn't a good idea) to others. That's a big way...I'd say the primary way...we can (and should, and must) be showing people we love them, by building open, strong, genuine relationships with them. And not only with people outside but also those inside the church. Think of John 17.23. It's a challenge for us as Christians.
AaronM wrote on April 25th 07 at 04:46PM
By Matt on 4.25.2007 at 4:23 PM
"Reading the original post and specifically the paragraph about Aaron Matthews, I am struck by how he acts towards his friends, and how that compares to how Jesus acted and to how we should act towards everyone in this world."
I can walk on water too....But only after I've turned it into wine and gotten fairly drunk.
"Reading the original post and specifically the paragraph about Aaron Matthews, I am struck by how he acts towards his friends, and how that compares to how Jesus acted and to how we should act towards everyone in this world."
I can walk on water too....But only after I've turned it into wine and gotten fairly drunk.
Pete-KT wrote on April 25th 07 at 04:49PM
hey Donny
seems like someone has really gotten inside your head and screwed with you. You were never like this and all the sudden you let these people get to you. If god didn't want pornt o be invented he would of never made people to become horny and wanna do something about it. Whats better a guy to watch porn and play with himself or a guy to go out thats horny and rape a girl?
seems like someone has really gotten inside your head and screwed with you. You were never like this and all the sudden you let these people get to you. If god didn't want pornt o be invented he would of never made people to become horny and wanna do something about it. Whats better a guy to watch porn and play with himself or a guy to go out thats horny and rape a girl?
Sean T wrote on April 25th 07 at 04:54PM
xman62 wrote:
"I make a meager living as a teacher in public schools. Just who am I exploiting?"
Most public school teachers belong to a union. These teacher unions take stances that typically benefit teachers, while hurt students. Not allowing merit pay to better teachers, not allowing schools to dismiss bad teachers, and dismissing any form of accountability on a teacher. The union is against school vouchers which would allow parents to decide to send their children to a school that they feel is best for their child. They want no competition, no technology advancements that could threaten a job, and they don't want their teachers to be judged at all.
So what does a public school teacher like you exploit? Perhaps every student and all American tax payers.
"I make a meager living as a teacher in public schools. Just who am I exploiting?"
Most public school teachers belong to a union. These teacher unions take stances that typically benefit teachers, while hurt students. Not allowing merit pay to better teachers, not allowing schools to dismiss bad teachers, and dismissing any form of accountability on a teacher. The union is against school vouchers which would allow parents to decide to send their children to a school that they feel is best for their child. They want no competition, no technology advancements that could threaten a job, and they don't want their teachers to be judged at all.
So what does a public school teacher like you exploit? Perhaps every student and all American tax payers.
Sean T wrote on April 25th 07 at 05:22PM
I'll state that I've worked within the adult industry sparingly for part of my life. I'm not a porn producer, pornstar, or anything else directly involved in the making of pornography. But I do promote it and have made a nice living for myself. While I'm not a Christian, I feel I'm a good, charitable, and spiritual person.
So it bothers me when I read through posts by people who want feel porn has commited such serious "wrongs". That porn is something that needs to be stopped and legislation is the answer. Is porn really that bad? Has it really killed millions of people? Destroyed millions of innocent lives?
No. It's a cop out for people who are weak and can't take responsibility for their own actions. Porn is not like heroin that changes chemicals in your body and cause an addiction, it's a choice that a person makes. If someone abuses that choice, allows it to ruin their life, then it's their fault. No different from the guy who chooses to play video games 20 hours a day, eat chocolate donuts every morning till he has a heart attack, or runs to the casino to put his paycheck down on the blackjack table. The fact is, the only person to blame for destroying your life, is you. Gambling, food, video games, and porn don't destroy lives, weak people do.
And as we discuss destroying lives as many here seem to state, lets look at what some other things that destroy lives. Fighting in the name of Jesus has killed more lives than porn could ever imagine. From the Crusades, to the Inquisitions, to pogroms throughout history, millions have died because of Christianity, something porn will never touch. Heck, fatty foods, cigarettes, and alcohol will kill more people in this country today than porn has ever. I don't see anyone on this board fighting for legislation to eliminate those.
And how Christian-like is it to tell other people what they can and can't do with their life? While I know slavery is supported in the bible, I don't think it is fair for one person to pass moral obligations on to another person. It is up to each individual person to determine what is moral and immoral. If you don't like porn, that is fine, but don't pass legislation stating I can't enjoy it.
But don't get me wrong, I think there are problems with pornography and children being able to access it easily. But I think instead of villifying porn as many of you do, you should be working with the industry to figure out solutions. The porn industry doesn't want your kids seeing their stuff, they have no credit cards, and they just waste bandwidth. So why not work with them to find a reasonable solution to some concerns?
So it bothers me when I read through posts by people who want feel porn has commited such serious "wrongs". That porn is something that needs to be stopped and legislation is the answer. Is porn really that bad? Has it really killed millions of people? Destroyed millions of innocent lives?
No. It's a cop out for people who are weak and can't take responsibility for their own actions. Porn is not like heroin that changes chemicals in your body and cause an addiction, it's a choice that a person makes. If someone abuses that choice, allows it to ruin their life, then it's their fault. No different from the guy who chooses to play video games 20 hours a day, eat chocolate donuts every morning till he has a heart attack, or runs to the casino to put his paycheck down on the blackjack table. The fact is, the only person to blame for destroying your life, is you. Gambling, food, video games, and porn don't destroy lives, weak people do.
And as we discuss destroying lives as many here seem to state, lets look at what some other things that destroy lives. Fighting in the name of Jesus has killed more lives than porn could ever imagine. From the Crusades, to the Inquisitions, to pogroms throughout history, millions have died because of Christianity, something porn will never touch. Heck, fatty foods, cigarettes, and alcohol will kill more people in this country today than porn has ever. I don't see anyone on this board fighting for legislation to eliminate those.
And how Christian-like is it to tell other people what they can and can't do with their life? While I know slavery is supported in the bible, I don't think it is fair for one person to pass moral obligations on to another person. It is up to each individual person to determine what is moral and immoral. If you don't like porn, that is fine, but don't pass legislation stating I can't enjoy it.
But don't get me wrong, I think there are problems with pornography and children being able to access it easily. But I think instead of villifying porn as many of you do, you should be working with the industry to figure out solutions. The porn industry doesn't want your kids seeing their stuff, they have no credit cards, and they just waste bandwidth. So why not work with them to find a reasonable solution to some concerns?
AaronM wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:04PM
Sean T, well said. :)
Sean wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:09PM
Do you really buy your own horse crap that sexual addiction isn't as strong as drug addiction? Do you really believe that?
I mean, why do you think it is that there is such a thing as peeping toms- guys willing to risk public humiliation and going to jail all for that little peak that they MIGHT get. Doesn't that seem a little strange if we aren't somewhat prone to sexual addiction? I mean, come on. At one time searching for sexual material was the number one search on the net. People lose their jobs because they are looking at porn at work. Doesn't that seem a little strange to you, considering that they could just wait and look at it at home? I find it difficult to believe you don't realize that sexual addiction is one of the strongest addictions a person can get into. I mean, come on. I don't mind you telling yourself that if that is what you must do to satisfy your conscience. But telling a group of porn addicts that? You have a lot of nerve.
I mean, why do you think it is that there is such a thing as peeping toms- guys willing to risk public humiliation and going to jail all for that little peak that they MIGHT get. Doesn't that seem a little strange if we aren't somewhat prone to sexual addiction? I mean, come on. At one time searching for sexual material was the number one search on the net. People lose their jobs because they are looking at porn at work. Doesn't that seem a little strange to you, considering that they could just wait and look at it at home? I find it difficult to believe you don't realize that sexual addiction is one of the strongest addictions a person can get into. I mean, come on. I don't mind you telling yourself that if that is what you must do to satisfy your conscience. But telling a group of porn addicts that? You have a lot of nerve.
Jason wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:13PM
Not much need for me to post here since Aaron does such a great job of making logical and rational points clear without the added fog of religion but i just can not get over how so many people go on about how porn destroys lives meanwhile they almost certainly work for a company that destorys the very earth we live on, exploits people in third world countries and manipulates our government and lays off hard working people so their stocks can go up 1/4 of a percent. Way to wear your blinders people. Open up your eyes!
Jason wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:17PM
Oh, and about addictions. Yeah sex can be addicting, as can porn, food, money and drugs. Has outlawing drugs worked? Hell no, there are more people addicted to drugs today than ever. Did prohibition work? hell no. Making porn illegal would only make it go underground, it would not stop. Also with the internet, you can't control every country and every website in the world. US laws only apply the US. If you want to stop peoples addictions, you have to get them at the root. Why do people seek out these vices? Why do they take control over some and not others? ect. If you really think you can end porn addiction/sex addiction by passing laws you are so misguided its sad.
Jason wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:20PM
Also to xman, if your job doesn't exploit people the things you buy with the money you make from it certainly does. From the clothes you wear to the car you drive to the gasoline you put in it..and i could go on. No one is innocent here yet everyone needs someone to point a finger at and say they are the cause for all the pain and misery. Get off your high horse and take a look around.
Sean T wrote on April 25th 07 at 07:52PM
Yes, I really believe that (along with everyone in the medical community). It's called physical vs psychological dependency. While both are considered addictions, drug addiction in many cases is physical, while sex is psychological.
Go to a drug treatment center, watch addicts, see what it physically does to their bodies when they withdrawal. Do you know that withdrawal from many abused drugs can correlate in death? That cleaning up from some drugs cause seizures, hallucinations, and dangerously high heart rates and blood pressure? To compare that to sex addiction is absurd. When people start hallucinating, going into cardiac arrest, and have massive seizures when their ISP goes out and they can't access porn, I'll start buying your sex addiction is as bad as drug addiction theory.
And I'm not downplaying sex addiction, I'm saying it's a weakness. Just as gambling and eating crappy food. We all struggle with things in our life that are self-destructive. I have no doubt that you and others struggle with your addiction to sex. You are looking for someone else to blame for your problems. That is what cowards do. Real men look in the mirror, admit their faults, and fix it. They don't make cop-outs and excuses for their problems. I am not disrespecting your addiction, I'm disrespecting the fact that you choose to blame others for it.
And of course sex is popular on the search engines and in culture. We were given sex drives for a reason, to continue to populate the planet. Without it, we would be extinct. It's as natural as your drive for hunger and to protect your young. Being sexually aroused by a woman is not a bad thing, it's what was intended. There are those (such as the peeping Tom you mention) that take that drive too far and hurt themselves and others. Just as there are people who take their drive for food too far and hurt themselves and others. But that is your own will at stake, and not that of some porn on your computer. I have a sexual attraction toward Jessica Simpson, but I don't run up and grab her, nor feel she should be banished to some remote island to cure my desires.
Go to a drug treatment center, watch addicts, see what it physically does to their bodies when they withdrawal. Do you know that withdrawal from many abused drugs can correlate in death? That cleaning up from some drugs cause seizures, hallucinations, and dangerously high heart rates and blood pressure? To compare that to sex addiction is absurd. When people start hallucinating, going into cardiac arrest, and have massive seizures when their ISP goes out and they can't access porn, I'll start buying your sex addiction is as bad as drug addiction theory.
And I'm not downplaying sex addiction, I'm saying it's a weakness. Just as gambling and eating crappy food. We all struggle with things in our life that are self-destructive. I have no doubt that you and others struggle with your addiction to sex. You are looking for someone else to blame for your problems. That is what cowards do. Real men look in the mirror, admit their faults, and fix it. They don't make cop-outs and excuses for their problems. I am not disrespecting your addiction, I'm disrespecting the fact that you choose to blame others for it.
And of course sex is popular on the search engines and in culture. We were given sex drives for a reason, to continue to populate the planet. Without it, we would be extinct. It's as natural as your drive for hunger and to protect your young. Being sexually aroused by a woman is not a bad thing, it's what was intended. There are those (such as the peeping Tom you mention) that take that drive too far and hurt themselves and others. Just as there are people who take their drive for food too far and hurt themselves and others. But that is your own will at stake, and not that of some porn on your computer. I have a sexual attraction toward Jessica Simpson, but I don't run up and grab her, nor feel she should be banished to some remote island to cure my desires.
Sean wrote on April 25th 07 at 08:18PM
Here is the rub.
You think because it is deemed a pschological addiction, even though there is plenty of empirical evidence from society that such an addiction, even if it is purely psychological, seems to powerful enough to make people do idiotic things that land them in jail (possibly even for life for child sex offenders that repeat), that this gets you off scot free even though you are helping to provide the resources by which such people are enslaved?
I do believe the addict has a responsibility for their addiction. Nevertheless, the pusher shares in the blame. You know the product you produce is addictive. The least you can do is try to make it unavailable to those that are "weak minded", as you might say, who wish not to have access to it. It is the least you can do.
You think because it is deemed a pschological addiction, even though there is plenty of empirical evidence from society that such an addiction, even if it is purely psychological, seems to powerful enough to make people do idiotic things that land them in jail (possibly even for life for child sex offenders that repeat), that this gets you off scot free even though you are helping to provide the resources by which such people are enslaved?
I do believe the addict has a responsibility for their addiction. Nevertheless, the pusher shares in the blame. You know the product you produce is addictive. The least you can do is try to make it unavailable to those that are "weak minded", as you might say, who wish not to have access to it. It is the least you can do.
Bill wrote on April 25th 07 at 08:26PM
SeanT---Physical death is one thing. Spiritual death effects each one of us for ALL eternity. Pornography causes spiritual death.
By spiritual death, I mean sin. Sin separates us from God. We were created to be friends of God, but sin put a wall between us and God (eg--the garden of Eden, and the fall of man)
I don't fear physical death
I fear spiritual death, and the consequences of it.
By spiritual death, I mean sin. Sin separates us from God. We were created to be friends of God, but sin put a wall between us and God (eg--the garden of Eden, and the fall of man)
I don't fear physical death
I fear spiritual death, and the consequences of it.
Bob Loblaw wrote on April 25th 07 at 08:57PM
AaronM
A: I know that Jesus was born of Jewish descent. the fact that alot of artists portray him as white? yeah thats incorrect, but that has nothing to do with the validity of the Bible. and as for the Bible being true...lets take creation...if you take the half life of a certain kind of uranium, you can figure out that the element was formed in a matter of seconds, not billions of years. I ask you...how can something as complex as humans...the eyeball...the reproduction system...photosynthesis in plants...cell replication...the list goes ON...how was that formed by an explosion billions of years ago?
if you take the magnetic field of the earth, it has been decreasing slowly, at a constant rate ever since a record has ever been kept of it. if you draw the line back to 50 000 years ago, the magnetic field would have been so strong that nothing could have survived. let alone millions, or even billions.
Bible prophesies are coming true today.
Israel has become a nation again (in 1948) after 2000 years of nonexistence, just as what Ezekiel prophesied. The temple is being rebuilt in Jerusalem. How did Israel in the 80‘s and 90‘s beat enemies that numbered 5x more than them? there are hundreds of prophesies, that have come true, and are coming true...and at the rate of 100% thus far.
these prophesies were made by different men over the timeline of thousands of years. the fact that they all line up, and none contradict eachother is due to the fact that I have a powerful God...You can deny him, but he still loves YOU, and he will forgive you, as he did me, if you ask him to. Jewish or not.
B: you say porn builds relationships…so?
I could join a gang that kills people, deals drugs etc, and have relationships…doesn’t meant its right. Its just a relationship built on the common goal of exploitation, lies, and the greed of using other people’s bodies to make a quick buck.
And I see where you are coming from with the church singles thing. But can you blame them for being uncomfortable around you? You use women as objects…you exploit a sacred act to make money…
I’m not saying I agree with how they dealt with it, but you have to look at both sides of it.
I wasn’t referring to the people that make porn losing money…I’m referring to the people that consume it. Sure it may not cost lots compared to other addictions, but I’ve seen people with no money spend their last buck on porn. Sad eh?
And I like how you had nothing to say on the spiritual death that porn causes. You tried offering me a church porn website…yea your cool buddy. Try coming up with a valid point next time, instead of trying to pedal your trash.
First of all…I think its cool that your on here talking to other people, sharing your point of view and all…and for me, its educational talking to someone such as yourself, who is in the industry…but its kind of disgusting when you post ads for these sites…give it a rest.
C: ok, so an artist puts Jesus as a white guy, in a t-shirt and jeans.
I don’t care.
God doesn’t call us to follow other Christians…he doesn’t ask us to take someone else’s word for who he is.
He asks us to follow HIM alone, and to grow in a relationship with him, and learn about him for ourselves. The fact that he is white in these pictures is irrelevant to this conversation entirely. I’m not here talking about someone’s art project, I’m talking about the Bible, and what it says.
So, I’ll tell you how your taking psalm 23 out of context. Following Jesus is a choice I make EVERYDAY. Psalms says “thy word is a lamp unto thy feet, and a light unto thy path”…I choose to let him show me the way, because He fearfully and wonderfully made me…He alone is the author and perfecter of my faith. Sheep can see…I can make choices for myself, and that is one that I gladly make.
AaronM…please answer me this…what happens if we follow just two of the laws that God laid out for us….1--Love God……2-Love your fellow man. who would be hurt if we did that?
And please don’t try and tell me that porn is loving god or man…we all know that it is fake…and disrespectful…and it destroys relationships…
Hope to hear back from you.
A: I know that Jesus was born of Jewish descent. the fact that alot of artists portray him as white? yeah thats incorrect, but that has nothing to do with the validity of the Bible. and as for the Bible being true...lets take creation...if you take the half life of a certain kind of uranium, you can figure out that the element was formed in a matter of seconds, not billions of years. I ask you...how can something as complex as humans...the eyeball...the reproduction system...photosynthesis in plants...cell replication...the list goes ON...how was that formed by an explosion billions of years ago?
if you take the magnetic field of the earth, it has been decreasing slowly, at a constant rate ever since a record has ever been kept of it. if you draw the line back to 50 000 years ago, the magnetic field would have been so strong that nothing could have survived. let alone millions, or even billions.
Bible prophesies are coming true today.
Israel has become a nation again (in 1948) after 2000 years of nonexistence, just as what Ezekiel prophesied. The temple is being rebuilt in Jerusalem. How did Israel in the 80‘s and 90‘s beat enemies that numbered 5x more than them? there are hundreds of prophesies, that have come true, and are coming true...and at the rate of 100% thus far.
these prophesies were made by different men over the timeline of thousands of years. the fact that they all line up, and none contradict eachother is due to the fact that I have a powerful God...You can deny him, but he still loves YOU, and he will forgive you, as he did me, if you ask him to. Jewish or not.
B: you say porn builds relationships…so?
I could join a gang that kills people, deals drugs etc, and have relationships…doesn’t meant its right. Its just a relationship built on the common goal of exploitation, lies, and the greed of using other people’s bodies to make a quick buck.
And I see where you are coming from with the church singles thing. But can you blame them for being uncomfortable around you? You use women as objects…you exploit a sacred act to make money…
I’m not saying I agree with how they dealt with it, but you have to look at both sides of it.
I wasn’t referring to the people that make porn losing money…I’m referring to the people that consume it. Sure it may not cost lots compared to other addictions, but I’ve seen people with no money spend their last buck on porn. Sad eh?
And I like how you had nothing to say on the spiritual death that porn causes. You tried offering me a church porn website…yea your cool buddy. Try coming up with a valid point next time, instead of trying to pedal your trash.
First of all…I think its cool that your on here talking to other people, sharing your point of view and all…and for me, its educational talking to someone such as yourself, who is in the industry…but its kind of disgusting when you post ads for these sites…give it a rest.
C: ok, so an artist puts Jesus as a white guy, in a t-shirt and jeans.
I don’t care.
God doesn’t call us to follow other Christians…he doesn’t ask us to take someone else’s word for who he is.
He asks us to follow HIM alone, and to grow in a relationship with him, and learn about him for ourselves. The fact that he is white in these pictures is irrelevant to this conversation entirely. I’m not here talking about someone’s art project, I’m talking about the Bible, and what it says.
So, I’ll tell you how your taking psalm 23 out of context. Following Jesus is a choice I make EVERYDAY. Psalms says “thy word is a lamp unto thy feet, and a light unto thy path”…I choose to let him show me the way, because He fearfully and wonderfully made me…He alone is the author and perfecter of my faith. Sheep can see…I can make choices for myself, and that is one that I gladly make.
AaronM…please answer me this…what happens if we follow just two of the laws that God laid out for us….1--Love God……2-Love your fellow man. who would be hurt if we did that?
And please don’t try and tell me that porn is loving god or man…we all know that it is fake…and disrespectful…and it destroys relationships…
Hope to hear back from you.
AaronM wrote on April 25th 07 at 09:29PM
Dear Bob Loblaw,
I started o read your post but then I got to the following:
"you exploit a sacred act to make money"
So, based on your ignorance as to what it is that I actually do, I am inclined to offer you a hearty "FUCK YOU" instead of any sort of intellectual response.
I will tell you this though.....The "trash" you accuse me of peddling not only does not belong to me, as you stated, but one of those sites was in fact Donny's, hence the name Donnysgirls.com
The rest of your crap about Israel, God, and scripture honestly bores the shit out of me. I have no interest in reading it nor responding to it.
FYI, Donnysgirls.com is currently owned by a client/friend of mine. That means that I can ask him where the traffic for his sign ups come from. Would you like to know how many people clicked the link and joined from here before Donny removed the www. part?
You're probably one of them. Fucking hypocrites hiding behind your computer and claiming to represent Christianity.
Too funny.
I started o read your post but then I got to the following:
"you exploit a sacred act to make money"
So, based on your ignorance as to what it is that I actually do, I am inclined to offer you a hearty "FUCK YOU" instead of any sort of intellectual response.
I will tell you this though.....The "trash" you accuse me of peddling not only does not belong to me, as you stated, but one of those sites was in fact Donny's, hence the name Donnysgirls.com
The rest of your crap about Israel, God, and scripture honestly bores the shit out of me. I have no interest in reading it nor responding to it.
FYI, Donnysgirls.com is currently owned by a client/friend of mine. That means that I can ask him where the traffic for his sign ups come from. Would you like to know how many people clicked the link and joined from here before Donny removed the www. part?
You're probably one of them. Fucking hypocrites hiding behind your computer and claiming to represent Christianity.
Too funny.
Sean wrote on April 25th 07 at 09:48PM
AaronM-
Yeah, you know it is possible to be a Christian and also be a sexual addict. As long as we are fighting to be free, we aren't hypocrites. That is a reality many of us face. The difference is that we know we aren't saved by our own doing. Truth is, every Christian is in the process of getting to know God- and during that process most of us who are believers will fall down countless times, in greater and lesser degrees. The important thing is that we want to walk, and that we get back up after we fall. That is what makes us Christian.
By the way, I consider it rude posting a link to a porn site on a site for people who are struggling to be free from porn. I don't call pizza hut and ask them to send pizzas to your house, so don't put porn links on a page like this. It shows me that you are either very unaware, or you have a lot of anger toward Christians. If this is the case, I wish I understood why.
Yeah, you know it is possible to be a Christian and also be a sexual addict. As long as we are fighting to be free, we aren't hypocrites. That is a reality many of us face. The difference is that we know we aren't saved by our own doing. Truth is, every Christian is in the process of getting to know God- and during that process most of us who are believers will fall down countless times, in greater and lesser degrees. The important thing is that we want to walk, and that we get back up after we fall. That is what makes us Christian.
By the way, I consider it rude posting a link to a porn site on a site for people who are struggling to be free from porn. I don't call pizza hut and ask them to send pizzas to your house, so don't put porn links on a page like this. It shows me that you are either very unaware, or you have a lot of anger toward Christians. If this is the case, I wish I understood why.
AaronM wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:02PM
Sean....
It's anger. And if you don't have a basic idea yet as to why then you have not been paying attention to my posts.
My dislike for the church goes back to my childhood and how I and my family were treated. It's not gotten any better since then.
I don't consider you a hypocrite because you seem to be very open and honest about your issues. You appear to be one of the most Christian like people I have debated with on here.
I'll even stop posting porn links simply because YOU more or less are requesting me to stop.
As far as your offer yesterday of speaking directly with me...I'm not against that at all but I will tell you straight up that there is a ZERO chance of you or anybody else turning me to the light side...as it were. :) Here's my direct line. 1-866-223-3208 It's 9pm now.....Feel free to call up until midnight.
It's anger. And if you don't have a basic idea yet as to why then you have not been paying attention to my posts.
My dislike for the church goes back to my childhood and how I and my family were treated. It's not gotten any better since then.
I don't consider you a hypocrite because you seem to be very open and honest about your issues. You appear to be one of the most Christian like people I have debated with on here.
I'll even stop posting porn links simply because YOU more or less are requesting me to stop.
As far as your offer yesterday of speaking directly with me...I'm not against that at all but I will tell you straight up that there is a ZERO chance of you or anybody else turning me to the light side...as it were. :) Here's my direct line. 1-866-223-3208 It's 9pm now.....Feel free to call up until midnight.
Sean T wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:03PM
Bob Ladlow, you quote scripture, you say the bible is valid while science is not.
So I ask the following:
The bible states (Exodus 35:2) that those who work on the sabbath should be put to death. Do you believe that?
Do you believe that I should be stoned and my children eaten by wild animals for growing two separate crops side by side (Leviticus)?
There are a whole slew of others I can go through that I'm sure you do on a daily basis (eat ham, wear a shirt that is made by different materials).
And since all of the scientific community is wrong about the beginning of the earth. Where did those bones I saw at the museum come from? They call them dinosaurs apparently.
So I ask the following:
The bible states (Exodus 35:2) that those who work on the sabbath should be put to death. Do you believe that?
Do you believe that I should be stoned and my children eaten by wild animals for growing two separate crops side by side (Leviticus)?
There are a whole slew of others I can go through that I'm sure you do on a daily basis (eat ham, wear a shirt that is made by different materials).
And since all of the scientific community is wrong about the beginning of the earth. Where did those bones I saw at the museum come from? They call them dinosaurs apparently.
Sean wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:17PM
Hey AaronM-
I am interested in talking to you. However, I am working right now and even though I could stop working... I am pressing home on finishing a phase of a software project I have been working on for two years. I get a huge pay raise when I finish, with the extra carrot of the raise counting back through this pay period. I will have time to talk more freely this weekend, assuming you are available then.
Sorry for not reading all of your posts- I haven't read everything you posted on here. And for what it's worth, I apologize on behalf of the believers who have mistreated you in the path. I am sorry you had to experience that, though I know it would mean a lot more to hear from them than from me.
I am interested in talking to you. However, I am working right now and even though I could stop working... I am pressing home on finishing a phase of a software project I have been working on for two years. I get a huge pay raise when I finish, with the extra carrot of the raise counting back through this pay period. I will have time to talk more freely this weekend, assuming you are available then.
Sorry for not reading all of your posts- I haven't read everything you posted on here. And for what it's worth, I apologize on behalf of the believers who have mistreated you in the path. I am sorry you had to experience that, though I know it would mean a lot more to hear from them than from me.
AaronM wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:21PM
I plan to be out of town this weekend shooting pictures for a waterfall book I am working on. That number will not be changed any time soon though.
Joe Beranek wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:29PM
I was adicted to porn since I was 14. I've been improving. I think porn should be illegal because its not harmless fun.
I love everyone, council seeks council.
45 now and starting to talk to women. Porn is not good for you or me believe me.
God bless always Thank you for your time.
I love everyone, council seeks council.
45 now and starting to talk to women. Porn is not good for you or me believe me.
God bless always Thank you for your time.
Sean wrote on April 25th 07 at 10:34PM
I'll try to give you a call next week- on Monday it is on my calendar.
xman62 wrote on April 26th 07 at 12:08AM
You know, Aaron, you and foolish people like you are the reason why the radical Muslims hate the west and have sworn to destroy us. You and the pimp culture you attempt to defend are bringing just punishment on yourselves, and undeserved punishment on millions of decent people like me.
Well, God bless your thoroughly corrupt soul, you sophomoric little fuzzball.
Well, God bless your thoroughly corrupt soul, you sophomoric little fuzzball.
xman62 wrote on April 26th 07 at 12:34AM
dear Sean T,
I belong to no union. I think labor unions are no longer necessary in the US and are one of the main factors contributing to inflation. I pray daily that the Lord will use me effectively in the classes I teach to make a positive difference in the lives of the students. Sadly, Aaron unfairly and inaccurately accuses me of harboring the corrupt thoughts he would have, were he a teacher. Let us hope that never happens. What a sad and angry little person that Aaron is. I wouldn't expect him to understand a mindset of decency and benevolence.
I belong to no union. I think labor unions are no longer necessary in the US and are one of the main factors contributing to inflation. I pray daily that the Lord will use me effectively in the classes I teach to make a positive difference in the lives of the students. Sadly, Aaron unfairly and inaccurately accuses me of harboring the corrupt thoughts he would have, were he a teacher. Let us hope that never happens. What a sad and angry little person that Aaron is. I wouldn't expect him to understand a mindset of decency and benevolence.
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 12:42AM
Well now that's another difference between you and I. I am able to comprehend how the world really is and you...Well, you're just another idiot.
As an underpaid civil servant, I'm guessing you are not very well connected to the reality of the rest of the world.
How dare you try to pin a global religious issue, that has been building for thousands of years, on "people like me."
You're one fucked up individual.
As an underpaid civil servant, I'm guessing you are not very well connected to the reality of the rest of the world.
How dare you try to pin a global religious issue, that has been building for thousands of years, on "people like me."
You're one fucked up individual.
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 12:45AM
"Aaron unfairly and inaccurately accuses me of harboring the corrupt thoughts bla bla......"
Is lying considered a sin?
Is lying considered a sin?
Sean wrote on April 26th 07 at 01:05AM
Aaron and xman62
You know, I don't think you guys are getting anywhere. This conversation is rapidly spiralling out of control. And xman62- if you are a Christian, us fellow believers would appreciate a more civil tone on here. Has anyone taught you how love your enemy? That is what Christ taught us, isn't it? Come on. I surely am not feeling the love.
You know, I don't think you guys are getting anywhere. This conversation is rapidly spiralling out of control. And xman62- if you are a Christian, us fellow believers would appreciate a more civil tone on here. Has anyone taught you how love your enemy? That is what Christ taught us, isn't it? Come on. I surely am not feeling the love.
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 01:26AM
Sean, xman62 is the kind of Christian that attends church for the sole reason of looking good in the eyes of others. He has a need for acceptance and the church somehow provides that for him. He lies to himself and to us as well.
The thing is, he's not the minority within the Christian community but rather the majority. He's another "Jerry" or Luther, as mentioned above, and I could simply never value the words of a person like that.
The thing is, he's not the minority within the Christian community but rather the majority. He's another "Jerry" or Luther, as mentioned above, and I could simply never value the words of a person like that.
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 01:39AM
"Well, God bless your thoroughly corrupt soul, you sophomoric little fuzzball."
I just realised something....
You're a fag. I'm quite certain of this as no straight man would ever refer to another man as a fuzzball.
I just realised something....
You're a fag. I'm quite certain of this as no straight man would ever refer to another man as a fuzzball.
Kenroy wrote on April 26th 07 at 01:45AM
Unlike a lot of people here i believe legislation has its place. True it cannot change the hearts of people but it does create a buffer of sorts and offers some barriers to availibility. We can't go about what we do silently. Yes, we love people and try to create change in their hearts but a lot of major changes came not only from a change in heart but a change in the law. Were it not for a change in law blacks and minorities wouldn't have rights we do today. Waiting on the change in heart wasn't producung real results. it was change in the law and the heart. The change in law created a buffer for bigotry . I believe the same can be said for porn. We need changes on both fronts .
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 01:46AM
Back to Jonathan Miles....
You wouldn't happen to be the 24 year old Jonathan Miles from Portland, Oregon.... would you?
That would go a long way towards explaining why you want to protect Luther.
You wouldn't happen to be the 24 year old Jonathan Miles from Portland, Oregon.... would you?
That would go a long way towards explaining why you want to protect Luther.
Jason wrote on April 26th 07 at 05:15AM
Man guys...wake up and grow up...you are an embarasement! AaronM...all I have to say is that you are in my prayers buddy! To you other guys, read your bible and understand it before you shoot your mouth off trying to defend our God and doing a really pathetic job at it. There is not enought time here to be specific!
Bob Loblaw wrote on April 26th 07 at 11:08AM
AaronM...
your response was astounding.
and as for my ignorance as to what you do? according to the main article, you are a photographer in 'the business' and your material is in penthouse, huster, etc.
if that is in fact true, then yes, you are in the business of exploiting. simple as that.
the trash you are peddling...i don't care if its yours, his, or anyone elses. YOU posted the link in your response...YOU advertised for those sites...so whether its yours or 'your friends' i don't care. to me, thats peddling it.
I'm sorry that Israel, and God bore you though aaron. whether you realize it or not though, it does affect you and me. I'm just trying to get the point across that the Bible is still relevant to us, and that it is true...
aaron let me also say this...the reason I am on here talking, is because this matter is near and dear to my heart. I will freely admit that I used to look at porn semi regularily. that reason is because I used to have a void in my life, that needed to be filled over, and over again. Since then, I have found what it takes to fill that void, and I am not looking back...Its a God shaped void, and only he can fill it permanently. No, I didn't click on those links...you can not believe me if you like...but like I said aaron...thats a part of my life that is gone, and I'm glad that i'm free.
and I see that some of the things that I have said have insulted you, as per your swearing at me...please understand that it is pornography that i hate...because of what it has done to me, and to others. as far as you personally goes....i respect that your on here talking to us...i don't agree with your opinions, but i do respect that your taking your time to share with us...thank you...you are in my prayers.
as for SEAN T...
nowhere did I say that science is not valid...I actually said that science, archaological findings, geographical findings, etc support the Bible. I believe that science and the Bible go hand in hand.
so please don't twist my words. thank you.
as for your examples of the Bible...all the things you mentioned are in the old testament...which, when Jesus came (new testament), replaced all old testament (including the 10 commandments) with two rules....Love God with all your heart...and love your fellow man. as for the eating ham??? God said to peter 'Get up, kill, and eat...don't call anything that God has made unclean' which means that ham is ok...
Jesus said, if your lamb falls into the well on a sabbath, go save it...do what HAS to be done...other than that, God encourages us to take a day of rest, spend it with our family, friends, and with God...in our world of work 7 days a week & crumbling families is that such a bad thing? I think its good.
Think of this...God rested on the 7th day of creation, and things never fell apart...how much more can we rest, knowing that things will be ok tomorow???
and as for the fossil record....ahh yes. the reason you never hear of neandrothol man or 'lucy' or a ton of others anymore is because they were all hoaxes...people got charged for creating these hoaxes!!!! lucy (the short, slightly bent over fossil) was actually a young child suffering from accute arthritis. as for dinosaurs, they are mentioned in the Bible...(see: the book of Job) though Job is most the way through the Bible, it was actually one of the earliest books chronologically...if I'm not mistaken, the dinosaur is referred to as the 'behemoth'
have you ever heard of carbon 14 dating? a process used to date fossils, plant life, etc. well they put it to the test...scientists have dated LIVING creatures...they came up as over 300 000 years old...they tested plants that were dead, but growing out of an old brick wall that was built around the 1700's??? 500 000 years old...that doesn't line up with the evolution theory at all, or creation...it is a faulty measurement of time.
Science supports the idea of a global flood.
(noah's ark story)
Do you know why there is so much oil in Iraq? because the Garden of Eden was located in present day Iraq...it was a HUGE, lush garden...since its decay, it then turned into what we know as fossil fuels...
modern science supports the idea of the Garden of Eden.
so Sean T in your endevour to make me look dumb, there...read it...soak it in...talk again, only if you have a more respectful tone please...i hate dealing with ignorance.
and read your Bible...don't even think about saying crap about it, if you don't even know how it works, or what it says. especially if your trying to make me look bad...thats cool if its an honest question, but ignorance??? no thanks.
your response was astounding.
and as for my ignorance as to what you do? according to the main article, you are a photographer in 'the business' and your material is in penthouse, huster, etc.
if that is in fact true, then yes, you are in the business of exploiting. simple as that.
the trash you are peddling...i don't care if its yours, his, or anyone elses. YOU posted the link in your response...YOU advertised for those sites...so whether its yours or 'your friends' i don't care. to me, thats peddling it.
I'm sorry that Israel, and God bore you though aaron. whether you realize it or not though, it does affect you and me. I'm just trying to get the point across that the Bible is still relevant to us, and that it is true...
aaron let me also say this...the reason I am on here talking, is because this matter is near and dear to my heart. I will freely admit that I used to look at porn semi regularily. that reason is because I used to have a void in my life, that needed to be filled over, and over again. Since then, I have found what it takes to fill that void, and I am not looking back...Its a God shaped void, and only he can fill it permanently. No, I didn't click on those links...you can not believe me if you like...but like I said aaron...thats a part of my life that is gone, and I'm glad that i'm free.
and I see that some of the things that I have said have insulted you, as per your swearing at me...please understand that it is pornography that i hate...because of what it has done to me, and to others. as far as you personally goes....i respect that your on here talking to us...i don't agree with your opinions, but i do respect that your taking your time to share with us...thank you...you are in my prayers.
as for SEAN T...
nowhere did I say that science is not valid...I actually said that science, archaological findings, geographical findings, etc support the Bible. I believe that science and the Bible go hand in hand.
so please don't twist my words. thank you.
as for your examples of the Bible...all the things you mentioned are in the old testament...which, when Jesus came (new testament), replaced all old testament (including the 10 commandments) with two rules....Love God with all your heart...and love your fellow man. as for the eating ham??? God said to peter 'Get up, kill, and eat...don't call anything that God has made unclean' which means that ham is ok...
Jesus said, if your lamb falls into the well on a sabbath, go save it...do what HAS to be done...other than that, God encourages us to take a day of rest, spend it with our family, friends, and with God...in our world of work 7 days a week & crumbling families is that such a bad thing? I think its good.
Think of this...God rested on the 7th day of creation, and things never fell apart...how much more can we rest, knowing that things will be ok tomorow???
and as for the fossil record....ahh yes. the reason you never hear of neandrothol man or 'lucy' or a ton of others anymore is because they were all hoaxes...people got charged for creating these hoaxes!!!! lucy (the short, slightly bent over fossil) was actually a young child suffering from accute arthritis. as for dinosaurs, they are mentioned in the Bible...(see: the book of Job) though Job is most the way through the Bible, it was actually one of the earliest books chronologically...if I'm not mistaken, the dinosaur is referred to as the 'behemoth'
have you ever heard of carbon 14 dating? a process used to date fossils, plant life, etc. well they put it to the test...scientists have dated LIVING creatures...they came up as over 300 000 years old...they tested plants that were dead, but growing out of an old brick wall that was built around the 1700's??? 500 000 years old...that doesn't line up with the evolution theory at all, or creation...it is a faulty measurement of time.
Science supports the idea of a global flood.
(noah's ark story)
Do you know why there is so much oil in Iraq? because the Garden of Eden was located in present day Iraq...it was a HUGE, lush garden...since its decay, it then turned into what we know as fossil fuels...
modern science supports the idea of the Garden of Eden.
so Sean T in your endevour to make me look dumb, there...read it...soak it in...talk again, only if you have a more respectful tone please...i hate dealing with ignorance.
and read your Bible...don't even think about saying crap about it, if you don't even know how it works, or what it says. especially if your trying to make me look bad...thats cool if its an honest question, but ignorance??? no thanks.
AaronM wrote on April 26th 07 at 11:15AM
For those of you who post that I am in your prayers....
Kindly remove me from them. I do not now nor will I ever wish to be included in them.
If I were a Pagan and told you that I would include you in my practices would you appreciate that? No, you wouldn't. So how about if you stop doing the same to me?
Kindly remove me from them. I do not now nor will I ever wish to be included in them.
If I were a Pagan and told you that I would include you in my practices would you appreciate that? No, you wouldn't. So how about if you stop doing the same to me?
Trox wrote on April 26th 07 at 11:18AM
I admittedly haven't read through all the posts, but why is AaronM here? Is this guy mentioned in the blog? It's not that I don't appreciate or see the value in debating issues, but I think there comes a point when it becomes more antagonistic than someone from the "other side" of the argument. Like I said, I have been on this site for very long, and didn't read through each and every repsonse. I'm sure people will either ignore this post because i'm not as informed or d